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"Nostalgia... The Movie"

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  • "Nostalgia... The Movie"

    For those who just joined us, the subject of Nostalgia came up in the "Why Daheshism" Thread and now we have a whole new thread... imagine that! (Incidentally, it all actually started thanks to "whitetiger" A.K.A mario's initial remark... no... not Mario... mario... yes... we have 2 "MARIO"s in Daheshville, and I suppose the improvised convention to tell them apart is with the Upper/lower case "m"... are you paying attention!? )

    So, here are the last couple of messages that were the springboard for this new discussion:

    Originally posted by whitetiger
    ok how about we talk about nostalgia now?
    and is there any listeners on this???
    Originally posted by Sandrine
    Hello "Whitetiger" ...

    Nice to meet you ...

    I Have seen that you quoted "Le Petit Prince" and that you’ve studied in Belgium ... Do you speak french ? ...

    I’d like to thank you for sharing your thoughts with us … indeed … very interesting!

    Mario, do "You" feel nostalgic about anything ? …

    Originally posted by whitetiger
    are you analysing me Sandrine why did you keep silent during our dispute Mario and I.
    hehehe i am an expert in avoiding and diverting questions, yes the little prince is a treasure of a book an essence, a condensed philosophy of life and living. I attended the jesuites school in lebanon so i speak french but find english clearer and more expressive. French culture and language is structured on subordination, english on juxtaposition. I feel more at "home" with english culture. And no i dont feel nostalgic about anything i was very "oriental" romantic and nostalgic, i made the conversion successfully sometime ago. What do you think about nostalgia?

    Originally posted by Sandrine
    Hi mario ... of course I’m analysing you ... And I also catch your nice Boomerang …

    In my opinion, "Nostalgia" is the expression of a kind of frustration.
    Unfulfilled desires and sorrows that lead to nowhere ... "looking back" serves no purpose …

    The only path to happiness is to live consciously each moment "here and now", like the zen philosophy teaches us …

    Nostalgia may turn you into a bitter person. But of course, Nostalgia is not to be confused with "sweet memories" that can help in one’s life journey … which to me, is a good thing by itself …

    Nostalgia can sometimes be a "Rocky Road" ... and speaking of which, I can really go for some "Rocky road" ice cream right now, and that is the extent of my Nosltalgia

    "Fail, to succeed."

  • #2
    I don't know which to agree with you on more, the Pandora's box reference or that we are exhausted. But, the show must go on, so even if we have to crawl to the finish, we'll debate that one!

    Here, I have a beginning thought: first of all, we really don't know "where we are." In other words, we may look and feel "real" but in "reality" (whatever that is) we are not. Are we projections? From what and from where? And how come we can actually remember the past (as it appears to us, because, in Quantum physics we learn that time has no arrow—meaning, no past, no future, and all the possibilities exist simultaneously) but not the "future?" We sometimes (and very involuntarily, might I add, see dreams that are prophetic. But, we can't really say that we can foretell the future, whereas we can remember the past, and sometimes, be trapped in its orbit. Nostalgia, in my personal experience is a handicap. I remember coming to the USA in 1979 and utterly shutting the door on my heritage. I was now "an American." After a five year stint in NYC, I moved to Massachusetts, hoping I would get even further from my native culture. So I settled in Watertown... which I later nicknamed "WatarTan" being that it was where all the East Coast Armenians resided... (I am half Armenian)... and, I don't have to tell you the number of Middle Easterners that reside in the Greater Washington D.C. Area. .. So, sometimes you cannot escape your "past." So I began to yearn for so many things I could cry. I won't mention them here because... well... that would defeat the whole purpose of the thread... and besides, just listen to "Divine Mystery" and it says it all... But, back to this issue, of how come we can remember the past and not the future... despite the belief I (for one) have and which says that all the possible scenarios of our existence already exist, and are playing, over, and over, and over, in their own closed loop.

    But, let's take it one step at a time: Say you were able to travel faster than the speed of light... say... at the speed of "thought" (I think I am on the Moon, bingo, I'm there! Ain't nothin' faster than the speed of thought!). If that was true, then logically, you (or parts of you...that can...) would be able to catch up with every "wave" and "particle" that escaped planet Earth, as a result of an interaction. So, imagine being able to catch up all these "waves" (assuming they have not dissipated or faded out due to interference or friction) and traveling past them, then stopping ahead of them, thus giving them a chance to roll past you, once again, to give them a chance to catch up with you, so that you can "replay" them again... Of course, in this insane example, you wouldn't have any audio... only "VIDEO" ... since the sound we hear on planet Earth is transmitted via airwaves. But, what about the electrical impulses that trigger our brain to mechanically recreate that which we are thinking (on a real or subconscious level) of saying. I suppose, I am saying, that just like a RADIO or TV, we, humans, are tuned to some "frequencies" that make us think, act, and speak, and all these "frequencies" are the building block of the universe.

    The problem is this... I think the 3 dimensional "Universe" we exist in (or perceive) consists of (relatively speaking) 2 dimensional layers or orbits, all closed on themselves. There is no way to "see" beyond the "past" or the "now" in a closed loop. The "now" ... are getting all this? ... is the result of traveling between loops. Since (theoretically, there is "void" between the loops) we are therefore flying with zero visibility until we intercept another loop and so on...

    All that aside, and because we need to give a Daheshist perspective: Doctor Dahesh himself wrote that, when he dies, we should not linger in the past and keep on living and growing, etc. (I have to find the exact poem, but it's true).

    I'll stop here... because I think I short circuited my brain!
    Last edited by Mario; 08-31-2006, 11:54 AM.
    "Fail, to succeed."


    • #3
      Thank you Mario... Your theory is quite complex … but I like it !
      If we realize “what/where is planet Earth” according to our beliefs, do you think that Daheshists will inevitably feel “Nostalgia” ?

      Yes, Nostalgia is the Hope for a “Better place”, The expectation of a “Better world” on Earth or in another dimension … strange but true...

      Nostalgia is the quest of “a lost Paradise” where we’d like to return … it symbolizes the fact that “we”- as human beings - are conscious of our own limitations.
      The eternal search for our “missing part” … the Myth of the lost Unity … indeed we’ve lost it
      Last edited by Sandrine; 06-02-2008, 07:35 PM.


      • #4
        Originally posted by whitetiger
        It is so strange that each time i travel and land in a different city i find people's complications or simplicity directly related to the corresponding map of their cities, take a map of any city in north america and you see blocks and squares and streets and avenues number from zero to hundreds in a clear an orderly manner, now step into the european continent and you begin to notice round abouts, triangular configurations, things start getting complicated but if you go a little but further and with "god "'s help make it to the middle east "alive or whole" you perceive total chaos and that is exactly what is inside people's brains there, the configuration of the city street map is the configuration of their brain neurones, they created it and consequently it created them back.
        Have you been to Boston, per chance? The motto "theya" is "If you don't know where y' aaa', then you are not supposed to be "theya"!"

        I think you've just opened Pandora's box!

        Lower Manhattan is as much a labyrinth as any old part of Beirut, and yet it provides a nice enriching urban experience. Meanwhile, in Ras Beirut, when we began to see signs of urban renewal (shortly before the war started), the "master plan" might have been great on paper, but it certainly destroyed the fabric of the community. Cities are ecosystems.

        Many modern cities that were built overnight, and who where "planned" and very well designed, were a fiasco from the habitability point of view. My point: what we perceive as chaotic or utterly alien to us as far as cities are concerned may simply be a matter of whether or not we are (metaphysically) compatible with that place.

        Drop me anywhere in Manhattan or Boston, I'll feell at home. 10 years in the DC area, and I still have to use a GPS. My thought is that the reason you feel this way about certain environments is a function of your Metaphysical compatibiltiy and it has nothing to do how they were planned.

        Case in point, in the graduate department (Urban Design) we studied the classical towns and drew lessons from them, as we constantly pondered what made a good city versus a bad one. What we found out is that we THINK we know... In reality, a city, and her people, must grow together and form a bond. Sometimes, for example, people actually LIKE it when car and people mingle... again, Chaos...

        Take this place, Daheshville, for example. You have "neighborhoods" that still have not been "visited" despite the (implied) "value." It's almost as if these forums should not have been formed in the first place and that eventually, Daheshville will follow the flow of the discussions—as it should. It will experience growth and decay. Sometimes even "cataclysms" ... And, even so, when we rebuild it, are we going to say... "OK, let's rebuild it exactly as it was, we'll just go in there and continue the conversations, as if nothing happened..." That would never work in a million years because Daheshville, just as any city, is not simply "form follows function." It's "form and function" working together. To rebuild it as it was, would be, an exercise in Nostalgia... (except if we simply had a hard drive crash and we were able to restore it from the back ups files. But, if EMOTIONAL TRAUMA was involved... forget it. Best to mourn, let go, then rebuild anew. And, from time to time, honor the past.

        Last edited by Mario; 09-01-2006, 02:09 AM.
        "Fail, to succeed."


        • #5
          Originally posted by whitetiger
          The place of planet earth is in our brains, life is real only when we are, there is no object without an observer, the object exists only within our range and latitude of observation. Life is a hologram created by light, energy and magic, it is impossible to explain, useless to understand, it is paradox, humour and continuous change (every action has an equal and opposite reaction), with only one limitation: the "I". ....
          Hello, yes life is a Paradox …

          Your post makes me think that you’ve created your own “spiritual blend” with a delicate touch of Buddhism : the importance of the “I” – not to be confused with an excessive and uncontrolled “Ego” I assume – and the concept of living the only thing we seem to be able to control which is the : “Here and Now” … I totally share this conception and “try” to practice it as a way of life

          Daheshism (to simplify A LOT and among other concepts …) explains that all Religions, all Philosophies, all sciences are “parts of THE Truth” … but we still have to walk on the Path of our own Discovery.
          Of course, Religions, Theories or Words are voids of meaning if they do not lead to a “Life experience”… and if they are not followed by “Actions” for our own sake AND for the Others … because “Humanity” is “A Great Whole” and we are all linked one to each other …

          In your opinion (and talking about life that can only exists within an observer) ... Do you think that God can be considered as an Observer ?

          And, to come back to the purpose of this thread, within your own Philosophy : Why would we feel Nostalgia, what may explain this feeling?
          Last edited by Sandrine; 06-02-2008, 07:36 PM.


          • #6
            Come on Sandrine, tell him what "Rocky Road" is ... and you know he can't join you in the French Forum because ... well... for one... he'll need a French Keyboard ... something MANY "Francophones" have already... I wish THEY would join you in the French Forum, so that it come alive!

            Back to mario

            Originally posted by whitetiger
            hehehe it is strange since you talk about boston and you mention that there is sooo many middle easterns there couldn't that be related to their own culture and contribution to chaos in that corner?
            I don't know how to answer this particular question except to say that the built environment in Boston predates any ME's arriving there, and that despite the complexity of the environment, I never thought of Boston as "chaotic." Heck, if anything, it is one of the most ... "structured" and... geez... "conservative" (despite the highly liberal blood that flows in its veins) places you'll find. Sure... the drivers are crazy... (for one thing, they invented the "fake left, turn right" maneuver to nail a pedestrian—I think there is a "Patent Pending" ...) Whereas, in NYC, despite the grids, people are FRUSTRATED, perhaps due in part to the grid that has been imposed upon them.

            Originally posted by whitetiger
            when you write about being (metaphysically) compatible with that place isn't analogous to what i proposed about city maps being the projection of our neurones map? if you land in a city that has a configuration similar to yours you will feel at home, it all depends where you are coming from in life. What is outside is a manifestation of what is inside and consequently what is inside is re-infuenced and feeds on what is outside, everything is a cycle.
            Initially, I attributed the fact I loved NYC due to the way it was laid out (the orderly grid), and when I first went to Boston (for 3 months), I couldn't stand it because I couldn't wait to return to NYC. In fact, Boston, and despite the "chaos" was orderly, and... the people were nicer! But I didn't like it. In NYC, there WAS Chaos despite the orderly shell and I LOVED it. Yes, of course, if you talk about the underlying energy, sure, but all I am saying is that how people build, write, etc. is not necessarily an expression of who they truly are.

            Plus, how do you explain the immediate feelings we experience (sometimes even BEFORE we get there... or meet someone?) Do the neurons work this fast? Yes, globalized marketing (such as the USA promoting its culture via movies, music and the like) plays a role. But, say you are now in the USA (or any "environment we were drawn into), and the "honeymoon" is over and reality sets in—we begin to see the good as well as the bad. And our neurons are constantly being reshaped. But, what about when we feel something deep inside that we can't explain... For example, you suddenly develop an obsession to go somewhere, say "an inner voice" and you cannot fight it. It may be a place you know little about. Or, how come we are compatible with some people despite the time and effort we put into the relationship—or, better yet, right off the bat, we meet someone, and we feel "I don't like this person!" Where is this "a priori" and presumptive assessment coming from?
            Last edited by Mario; 09-01-2006, 05:26 PM.
            "Fail, to succeed."