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  • The Mother of all Debates...

    Dahesh once commented that even if GOD almighty were to grace human beings (who have a knack for the mundane) with his presence, and say, he were to sit down and have tea with them, they would eventually take him so much for granted that all they would say would be: "Oh, look, GOD's having tea with us..."

    In marketing there exists a fundamental concept of "perception of value."

    For example, if I were to simply give away something of value and place a lower price tag on it, or worse, give it away for free, human beings are genetically "wired" to consider it devoid of value.

    Sure, sometimes, we have to give away things for free—for humanity's sake. After all, when we read Dahesh's writings, he is very specific when he says that it is our duty to do something—anything—to make humanity a better place.

    In my case, I don't have any children. And assuming all of them would have been great humanitarians, I cannot claim that I am contributing to humanity that way. Nor did I invent a life-saving medical procedure. I did discover that to let your pizza dough rise in the fridge overnight will impart it with a sweeter taste... quite by accident, I assure you... Not quite "Nobel-prize-winning" but... at least my immediate friends and family do enjoy life better as they sink their teeth into this sweeter crust...

    Anyway, what I wanted to say is this: to me "Daheshville" (and speaking on behalf of ALL who participated and made this virtual city possible) it is our modest way of trying to make the world a better place.

    "How?"

    Well, if Dahesh was indeed the reincarnation of Christ (and please track down my posts that discuss the evidence I found that show that Dahesh himself said that) then the men and women who were around him (despite of all their personal differences and often opposing egos) are still important to humanity).

    Till today, they are not organized.

    "Why not?"

    That's a long story.

    But, let's just say that, so far, and despite the spirited debates that occurred here (take THAT reality TV!) we've seen, perhaps, for the first time anywhere, such a dynamic and interactive archive (not to be confused with the Socratic method when one person stands on the podium and tells you what you should be thinking).

    May they be right or wrong, we humans need to debate the concepts and issues that are given to us.
    I remember one time I mentioned to the Doctor that our priest told us that God didn't really punish the Egyptians during passover. Instead, that Moses and his gang, went around town slaughtering first born children. The Doctor, without skipping a beat replied "How did he have time to go around all these houses and kill all these people?" The Doctor didn't say "The priest is wrong!" or... "that is blasphemy." No, the Doctor used deductive reasoning: If the Priest was assuming that no supernatural forces were involved, then time and space couldn't have been bent. Therefore, it is an illogical statement. Especially when we take into consideration the number of children who allegedly were killed that night.
    Of course, we can't use deductive reasoning in every case. For example, a Daheshist believes that the name "Dahesh" was given to Salim Achi because there was a reference in the Bible about that word. Of course, the counter argument is "Salim Achi simply took the name, in fact, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy." Basically, there are certain things Daheshists believe in that are not debatable... Belief, after all, cannot be "proven." If we can prove (via scientific methods or deductive reasoning) a belief, then it is no longer a belief, but a theorem which then becomes a law.

    Deductive reasoning—in the context of such things as the supernatural—can only be used once we established (and agreed upon) the premise. For example, in the Old Testament, the premise IS that God killed the children, via supernatural forces, and a mere mortal cannot undertake such a huge task on their own. Meaning: millions (let's say) of Children suddenly dying during one fateful evening is not "normal" and there are no physical laws that would explain how a small group of men (Moses and Co.) can achieve such a feat.

    But, we can't say "Dahesh IS the reincarnation of Jesus, because, over here, in the Bible, it says he will come back as 'so and so' or 'such and such' " That's inviting someone (such as myself) to say "you just described a self fulfilling prophecy."

    On the other hand, you can say "I Believe that this is true, and I don't give a horse's patootie if you accept it or not". That's is the nature of Belief, a non-debatable, non-provable proposition. People may think you're crazy. But so what?

    Which brings me to my point: I believe Daheshville is important. And I also believe that those of us who are participating in it for the public's pure enjoyment are owed something in return.

    But what?

    We know we're not going to charge people for reading the content.

    Nor can we keep giving away such valuable and often priceless bits of information, not knowing who is reading it, or whether or not it has (drum roll please!) VALUE in their eyes.

    So, I need to hear from all the participants about this issue:

    Should we, now that we have a LOT posted, make it so that ONLY registered users can access the information and read the posts?

    The reason I bring this up is because, well, where else can you find an ACTUAL scan of Doctor Dahesh's signature (proving how, he himself, wrote his name). Forget THAT aspect, it's downright RARE.

    How about when we will decide what to do with the over an hour and a half's worth of Doctor Dahesh audio? We're not simply going to give it away now are we?

    So, let's hear what you think. Better yet, organize yourselves into the established religion that you know you ought to be in (yes, I like "organized religion" as much as kissing a rattle snake. But, just because humanity failed the prophets a zillion times, doesn't mean WE should give up. Besides, it is "written.")

    So, my dear self-proclaimed Daheshist who might be turning your nose up at these words (which you simply cannot resist reading) what you need to ask yourself is this: When Dahesh will "sing" when the "Daheshist" religion spreads in the United States of America, and prompts this great nation to be, once again, a shining example for all other nations, will you pat yourself on the back for having done your part in furthering the cause of humanity? Or will you be forced to return, in some distant future, as a Daheshist, while those who put themselves on the line will return with Dahesh, now in his next incarnation...perhaps attempting to enlighten your mind which cannot see past the holy texts ... texts that might have been up to date 2000 years ago, and whose survival (back then) owed nothing to your total lack of involvement.

    Hence the "irony."
    Last edited by Johnson; 03-17-2007, 11:58 PM.
    "Fail, to succeed."

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mario
    But what?

    We know we're not going to charge people for reading the content.

    Nor can we keep giving away such valuable and often priceless bits of information, not knowing who is reading it, or whether or not it has (drum roll please!) VALUE in their eyes.

    So, I need to hear from all the participants about this issue:

    Should we, now that we have a LOT posted, make it so that ONLY registered users can access the information and read the posts?

    The reason I bring this up is because, well, where else can you find an ACTUAL scan of Doctor Dahesh's signature (proving how, he himself, wrote his name). Forget THAT aspect, it's downright RARE.
    Mario,

    Of course we need to openly share our faith with people.

    We need to tell the world Who Doctor Dahesh was …

    Our duty is to correct what is wrongly written about Him and Daheshism … but … people also need to show their commitment. In fact, Daheshville is the only place in the world where we can meet freely without limitations … but, “This Beautiful City” is not supposed to become an “arena” where we are simply entertaining the public …

    We could be held responsible for remaining silent just as we could be held responsible for giving too much and without discerning - This is always the famous “Paradox” … a “Balance” very hard to achieve.

    For example, although I personally have the handwriting of The Doctor on some papers he gave me, long time ago (I was 9 years old) - I was still very moved when I saw his signatures on those checks you’ve scanned and posted in the “members section”.

    This is why I think that some precious historical documents should be offered with restricted access. So maybe, rather than to allow free access, we should instead ask those who wish to see these documents to contact us directly and at least, show a level of involvement in Daheshville.

    This is as if you would give to Christians the handwriting of Christ - I was born in a Christian family … Just ask my grandmother how precious would be the handwriting of Jesus Christ for her !!!
    If we imagine those people, all around the world, seeking evidence of the daily life of Christ … this is very comparable but maybe, we do not realize it, because we are too familiar with it.

    We really need “This Public Place” called Daheshville to preserve The Truth about Doctor Dahesh.

    We simply cannot endorse confusing descriptions of our faith or any alteration of our symbols!

    We already begin to read on some web sites, puzzling topics depicting haphazardly what “Daheshism” is...

    That is why “we” should be recognized as an “Official Place” where those who are seeking information about Doctor Dahesh and Daheshism can feel secure in the fact that it is accurate.

    What we really need to see now is “The Involvement” of all those who, until now have been spectators … I am talking about being proactive!

    Sandrine
    Last edited by Sandrine; 07-28-2006, 01:27 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Do not give what is holy to dogs

      “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

      For stating an opinion,someone feels reluctant in front of a serious and complicated matter as proposed.
      DAHESHISM is the Holy message.
      Reading the holy words Matthew7:6,i can understand that what is holy shall not be misplaced not to be disgraced.

      “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 “Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10 “Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
      12 “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 7:7

      After reading Matthew 7:7,we know that, as spiritual seekers,if asked it shall be given upon us.We asked and found answers,So the interested seekers must be provided with the knowledge.
      For as daheshists we know that as we are born we receive the main spiritual fluid giving us life and character.As THE BELOVED GUIDING PROPHET explained to Dr Ghazy Brax concerning the misconception that humain have in understanding that a child religion should be the same as his parents,instead the reality says that every one of us ,in his main spiritual fluid,has the religious fluid that decides to what religion the child tends according to GOD given evaluation to previous deeds in previous life.Then the seekers that tend to know about Daheshisme must have the spiritual fluid that drives them to seek.For as i understood,when Dr Brax asked THE BELOVED GUIDING PROPHET about him being Christian Orhtodox for the 27 years before believing in Daheshim,DR DAHESH answered him that he has been in a waiting state till he got to know Daheshisme.

      So my opinion is to publish and discuss all,at the same time monitor the bad trees recognized from the bad fruits they give and cut and throw.

      Regards.

      Samer El Haddad

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe the inherited message should be heard ...

        Maybe the inherited message should be heard ...
        The bad people will tell bad things on Dahesh and flip truths making people wonder on facts and the message will grow up further more .
        Do i think that Daheshisme is the relegion for today world ? no
        because the world did not develop yet relegiously right in the first place
        Do i think that Daheshisme will be the relegion of the future?Yes
        And I think wonders will happen , fast development and progress in thinking will revolutionize the world...
        But as i said people cant come to this level before they learn lessons(maybe lessons from great wars that will arise).
        But the most important thing at least to me to tell people about Dr Dahesh himself but the prayer and the symbol sounds and all should be hidden for now .
        Like in marketing give simple slogans (miracles and purpose of his message ).
        I dont know just thaughts , you know better

        Comment


        • #5
          The situation is as follows: Sharing the Daheshist experience on a one-to-one level demands a fair amount of energy. There is always the risk of the big let down. In other words, imagine someone coming to you and telling you they want to know more and YOU'RE the one they feel comfortable learning it from, and thus you become their teacher (or coach) and (perhaps) years of discussions would follow.

          Here is what the Doctor said in his book "Kalimaat" (Words) if I am not mistaken (and I paraphrase): Only when you are sure of the sincerity of the seeker and that there is not material or financial motivation behind their request, ONLY THEN you should reveal the spiritual secrets to them.

          But as we have seen in my "I once called a traitor brother," things can always change at the last minute as our spiritual fluids are in a constant movement between the "upper" and "lower" levels.

          That's where you must apply the following life philosophy: "Expect nothing" which is the English version of the proverb I've often heard in Arabic and which goes something like this: "Do good and throw into the ocean."

          Am I saying do not involve yourself emotionally? No. Why? Because even the Doctor—and despite all that he has said and wrote pertaining to how one cannot even trust one's self (practically speaking) on this planet—got involved and upset and hurt and happy... He wasn't a machine...
          Was he more than often rudely dispappointed? Yes.
          Did he give up? No.

          Did it matter to him that this or that person believed him and that they followed his advice? OH YES, and he's expressed himself to me when that or this particular person left the apartment... Doctor Dahesh was a very passionate person, and suffered for it.

          But then again, I've seen him take that most difficult and radical step of cutting this or that person off—for ever. As I have indicated in another post, he was so fed up with one Daheshist's behavior that he banned him from the Mission. And it wasn't JUST any Daheshist. I might have mentioned his having a spiritual fluid from Prophet Elijah. Well I just remembered that he has spritual fluids from John the Baptist!

          As far as the Symbol. I agree with you and I we should probably move the recent posts about the Symbol into the members' section now that the emergency—thank God—has passed.
          "Fail, to succeed."

          Comment


          • #6
            Guarding and revealing

            Hello Mario,

            After reading the note in your previous message:

            Here is what the Doctor said in his book "Kalimaat" (Words) if I am not mistaken (and I paraphrase): Only when you are sure of the sincerity of the seeker and that there is not material or financial motivation behind their request, ONLY THEN you should reveal the spiritual secrets to them.

            i can ask:" what is considered spiritual secrets?"
            This i'm not able to answer,but as a Daheshist i can't wait to put my hands on all the books written.

            “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

            I don't know if we can find similar meanings in Matthew 7:6 and the discussed topic.But,eventhough,a level of secracy for certain topics is required in my opinion avoiding accidents created by people misinterpreting purposfully or by lack of knowledge.

            We all know that THE BELOVED GUIDING PROPHET left secrets not to be revealed till specific times which lays on us the responsibility of guarding.

            Regards.

            Samer El Haddad

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello Samer,

              Excellent point and before I answer, I need to track down the actual quote and confirm that this is indeed what he said.

              I've been thinking and he might have said "Truths" and not "Secrets" .

              I'll follow up as soon as I find it.

              I KNOW it's in ONE of the books I have...


              Regards,

              Mario
              "Fail, to succeed."

              Comment


              • #8
                Samer, Sonic, and Mario:

                After reading your posts and giving consideration, wherever a religious truth or secret is so powerful that it would there would be a concern about financial or prestigious greed, most certainly, great caution should be used in dispensing such information. But if there are more effective means of prayer, meditation, or there could be a better understanding of preparing the soul for reincarnation, then teach it. If there is an appeal to people that would change their nature, then appeal to them.

                I am deeply interested in Dr Dahesh's spiritual concepts, practices, prayers, and his offering of hope. But I have no need for wealth or prestige and I have little sympathy for people who do. Samer's quote, "do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet", resonates with me. But those things I advocate dispensing freely are like giving bread to the hungry.

                There is no miracle needed today to resolve hunger and suffering. We only need the willingness of all people to resolve this issue. A spiritual awakening is needed. These problems need to be resolved in the hearts of men.

                The people of this planet are not fit for inter-planetary travel. We have too many issues that need to be resolved here first.

                Calamity is a great teacher and a great humbler of mankind. If that is what is required before we can resolve all of earth's problems, then let it begin. Afterward, maybe the world will be ready for Daheshism.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mario View Post

                  ... Things can always change at the last minute as our spiritual fluids are in a constant movement between the "upper" and "lower" levels...
                  Thank you Mario for reminding us THIS Fundamental Notion in Daheshism :

                  "Things can always change at the last minute as our spiritual fluids are in a constant movement between the "upper" and "lower" levels..."

                  That’s why Life is not static, change occurs all the time.

                  This might help everyone to accept and understand all "the ups and downs" and all the changes that happen in a "daily mood" … the many fluctuations of our state of mind ... from bliss to despair, from absolute calm and serenity to confusion and disorder…

                  And although we know that our spiritual fluids move in such a radical manner –without having a conscious control over the process – it does not prevent us from suffering.

                  One way to relieve our suffering could be to accept "the reality as it is" and trying not to cling to feelings of sadness, despair or even joy … Whenever situations arise that bring up uncomfortable thoughts or feelings, trying to let them go away quietly and each time: starting over …

                  Simply being conscious of "what" occurs in our minds (good or bad) and knowing that it will pass … is among the spiritual practices that may bring some inner transformation.

                  Walking along "the middle path" in order to remain centered wherever our spiritual fluids are (in upper or lower levels) is easier in theory than in practice … and we are often trapped in our own labyrinths !
                  Last edited by Sandrine; 03-16-2007, 03:19 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I found it!!!

                    I read Kalimaat over and over... I couldn't find the actual quote (in order to see if he said "Spiritual Secrets" or not)... Then I pulled out some other books and went through them... and I found some rather nice gems—might I add... But then I landed on the exact passage that I THOUGHT was in Kalimaat.

                    I made an error, it was NOT in Kalimaat (Words) but in "The River of Pleasures" (and please don't let the name fool you!)

                    I will post it phonetically. Then, the translation will follow.

                    So, this first round if for our Arabic-speaking brothers and sisters:

                    Man akramakum wa majjadakum, wa madda yada almusaa3adat lakum,
                    faraakibuuh litaktashifoo khabiiata nafsihi,
                    fa itha ta akkada lakum annahu karramakum wa majjadakum
                    laysa lighaayat yaksod min waraa iha al istifaadat al maadiyat,
                    aou ayatu ghaayat oukhra ta3ood limanfa3atifhi fi al nihaayat,
                    ith thaak IKRIMOOHU wa SAADIKOOHU,
                    thumma ATLI3OOHU 3ALA AL ASRAAR AL ROUHIYYAT,
                    LITAJ3ALLOOHU DAHISHIYYAN KAD YUFIID AL RISAALAT AL ROUHIYYAT AL MUKDDASAT WA YASTAFEED.


                    (Written in Dusselforf, Germany, at 4:50 A.M.. on June 7, 1972

                    For our English-only speaking audience, it WAS "Secrets" after all.

                    Also, I found a piece about Baalbek he wrote in 1944, in which he hinted at what he would later, MUCH later (over 30 years later) reveal in "Strange Tales and Wonderous Legends"
                    Last edited by Daheshville; 03-16-2007, 11:44 PM.
                    "Fail, to succeed."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sandrine View Post
                      One way to relieve our suffering could be to accept "the reality as it is" and trying not to cling to feelings of sadness, despair or even joy … Whenever situations arise that bring up uncomfortable thoughts or feelings, trying to let them go away quietly and each time: starting over …

                      Simply being conscious of "what" occurs in our minds (good or bad) and knowing that it will pass … is among the spiritual practices that may bring some inner transformation.
                      Thank you Sandrine. While looking for the quote that I thought was in Kalimaat, I came accross several passages that support what you are saying.

                      Also, I read the following:

                      "Sensitive souls are destined for Great hardship in this hard life."
                      "Fail, to succeed."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ronschaum View Post
                        Calamity is a great teacher and a great humbler of mankind. If that is what is required before we can resolve all of earth's problems, then let it begin. Afterward, maybe the world will be ready for Daheshism.
                        Hi Ron,

                        While searching for the exact quote, I found some actual passages in the Doctor's writings that support what you are saying. I promise to get to those soon. But first, I have the translation of the passage regarding revealing (or not revealing) the Spiritual Secrets:

                        Whoever celebrates and honors you and extends you a helping hand,
                        watch him closely so that you discover his hidden motives,
                        because if you are certain he celebrated and honored you without the ulterior motive of material gain,
                        or any other desire that ultimately benefits him alone,
                        in that case honor him and befriend him.
                        Then reveal to him
                        (literal translation is "bring him up to") the SPIRITUAL SECRETS so that you make him a Daheshist who will benefit the Sacred Spiritual Mission as well as benefit himself.

                        (Written in Dusselforf, Germany, at 4:50 A.M.. on June 7, 1972)

                        It is worthwhile to note that Doctor Dahesh PUBLISHED his books and some WERE filled with SPIRITUAL SECRETS.

                        I would guess that some are still hidden and they are not to be distributed until a particular time.

                        Others, have already been distributed in Arabic, Spanish, French, and German. Only a couple were released in English.

                        However, where is the English version of SOME of these KEY books that HAVE been published and HAVE been distributed (already) ... such as "Strange Tales and Wonderous Legends," "WORDS" and others?

                        One mystery we might never be able to unlock is the following:

                        Was there a particular (as in "spiritually mandated") reason the Trustees of the Dahesh estate publicly renounced Dahesh in the infamous Art News Article, or was it a bad call?

                        From the bits and pieces I would hear from here and there, they were hoping to avoid any discussion about Dahesh as a prophet UNTIL they were able to secure the buidling on Columbus Circle (in NYC), which the Doctor had always wanted. In other words, they kept telling everyone (and I paraphrase) "Once we get the building, then we will talk about Daheshism"

                        They would eventually go on to lose the bid to purchase the building (and point the finger at "some" people..."THEY are the reason we never got the building!"

                        But I want to know one thing: Did these fine people ever read the Doctor's chapter about DAHESHISM in "WORDS?" I suppose that's going to be our next project! (to be continued)
                        "Fail, to succeed."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mario:

                          I understand the politics that you reference. It's part of the world we live in. Thanks for your efforts. Originally some of my frustration was due to clouding of the water in the Dahesh well and I won't use the 'D' word. Over the weekend I may see what other books may be available through Dahesh Books.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Once i just typed "Ramz" and not symbol and i got comment about it from Mario.
                            I just typed it in arabic so it will be better :

                            من أكرمكم ومجدكم و مد يد المسعادات لكم
                            فراقيبوه لتكتشفوا خابْات نفسه
                            فاذا تأكد لكم انه كرمكم و مجدكم
                            ليس لغايات يقصد من وراءها الاستفادات الماديات
                            أو أي غايات اخرى تعود لمنفعته في النهايات
                            اذ ذاك اكريموه و صدقوه
                            ثم اطلعوه على الاسرار الروحيات
                            لتجعلوه داهشيا قد يفيد الرسالات الروحيات المقدسات و يستفيد
                            Last edited by Sonic; 03-16-2007, 06:28 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Since I have no exposure to Arabic, but a lot of exposure to computers I was curious to know if an Arabic to English Translator could handle Sonic's quote. I used http://www.systranbox.com/systran/box and got a somewhat reasonable translation. I also used google, but alas, it appeared more like GIGO.

                              The systransbox yielded:

                              From generous your and your glory and extension extended hand [aalmse'aadaat] punching
                              [fraaqybwh] to discovers [xaabaat] himself
                              So if confirming punched that he honored you and your glory your glory
                              Not for purposes intends from behind her [aalaastfaadaat] material
                              Or any last purposes his habituation for use in the ends
                              Whereupon [aakrymwh] and [Sdqwh]
                              Then [aaTle'wh] on the spiritual secrets
                              [ltje'lwh] [daahshyaa] already the spiritual letters holy report and benefits benefits

                              At least I could relate it to Mario's translation.

                              Comment

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