Step-Mother of some subsection of debates

[zionic]

Awwwlrighty then! Cast aside the furnture and roll up the rug! Zionic is here....it's party time!!

I guess.

Anyways and anywhoo...

I thought we could use a discussion on priesthood and temples, how they are related, and how they may be connected in the Dahesh Mission in the future.

What did Dahesh say about temples and their purpose, and about priesthood and its purpose? Knowing that Dahesh had serious concerns about the hypocrisy of many of the clergy, did Dahesh nontheless respect priesthood office as it was handed down in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches? If not, did Dahesh look forward to a restoration of true priesthood authority?

A certain advocate of Durwickian Evensonianism speaks of baptism and other rites being performed by Daheshist priests. What rites do mainstream ol' time Daheshists believe will be "sacramental" in Daheshist communities?

[Mario]

I know he told me that one day we were going to have a temple.

I know he wrote a passage about priests that one of the trustees stumbled upon while looking through his papers (after his passing). You might remember me mentioned being in the kitchen with her brother, right outside his private wing (this whole wing was later added to the existing house that the trustees owned. It was beautiful with a study, bedroom, and library).

I remember her reading that the priest (not sure whether if the passage was gender specific) had to be the kind of individual who did not use foul language... polite... etc. I vaguely remember that the priest is to be ELECTED and that there may be a term limit. If my recollection is correct (we're talking circa 1987 here...) then the priest may voted into service for x number of years, but then I don't remember if—after a number of years—they couldn't be priests anymore...

Yes, I read something about baptism. NOT from the Doctor, but (allegedly) something that was translated from Ghazi Brax by that man who is the star of the "show" currently playing somewhere else in Daheshville.

I won't quote what I read because—and now—I don't trust the source for 2 reasons:

When I read his tranlation of Father Noah's Letter, I saw a major mistake in the translation. In his version, he would have us believe that the Prophet HIMSELF would be among us and would reunite us. In my version, it would be the SPIRIT of the Prophet that will reunite us from his lofty place. In other words, we would understand that his "presence" would occur through special spiritual fluids acting as catalysts to make certain events happen. Therefore, unless I see Ghazi's ORIGINALS, I can't quote the source.

Reason #2, I have to stand up and declare that Ghazi Brax has lost all credibility with me, personally. I am basing my statement on my personal observations while I was with Doctor Dahesh (and I WAS with Doctor Dahesh, albeit for a short amount of time) as close as one can be. He and I shared the same appartment and the same bathroom. We were practically inseparable. So I heard things about a lot of people. And I noted them. I also heard things about certain people from other Daheshists. I noted those as well. I also noted how certain people treated me personally. And I noted that as well.

Those recent remarks he made about Daheshville were the "coup de grace."

I am not angry... not even disappointed. I just lost all interest... and feeling.

Also, and on perhaps DIFFERENT track...

One of the things that were once said at the Mission House in Beirut by one particular Brother who was always (I hear) faulted for being condescending and... arrogant... by his peers, was that he shouted (and I paraphrase) "I WILL SPLIT THE MISSION!"

I may be wrong. My memory may be a little shot after all these years. But, remember that prayer that I was supposed to distribute? The one in which the Doctor swore that if any brother or sister says anything that would lead to the SPLITTING of the MISSION he or she would be banned? Well... This MIGHT have been the reason why this prayer was written, photocopied, and then burnt...

And I know the trustees better than anyone. No man has ever been as close to them as I have.

Yes, they acted wrong when it came to certain things and we will never know what the real story is... But, I've always wondered how come they (who loved the fact that David and I gave the first and only lecture in the USA about Daheshism, and used THAT as reason to "push" ... others... much older "others" ... to do a lecture as well—which they ended up doing) are not printing Ghazi's instructions. And why is Ghazi determined to work with only those who pump his ego. The reason I say this is because this man—the only man to have access to his writings—always calls his "Brother Ghazi" etc. and treats him like a father... Is it FAKE admiration or genuine... I know he FAKES respect as far as ANOTHER Daheshist who has A LOT (supposedly) of information. The reason I know it is FAKE respect is because of what he told me often about him... SUPPOSEDLY as told to him by Doctor Dahesh...

Bottom line, Zionic, I've seen nothing but competition and blind ambition. None of this has ANYTHING to do with the way Doctor Dahesh envisioned. And the fact we're airing all this out is PROOF that we're not a cult, and that MAYBE, all of it DID happen... It it all texbook behavior.

Everybody who can be a bully wants to rule... Well, not on OUR watch.

That being said, I think we are alone and it is high time we realize it and it is high time that WE (ourselves) dare to organize and ... go on living.

Otherwise, are we to believe that everything we've done so far is meaningless because a certain ritual was not performed?

May I remind everyone that NOT ONCE did the Doctor quizz me about rituals?

But, hey, one can argue that "Well, Mario is a heathen anyway... what would he do with rituals?"

Well, what more do I need than to know how to write and burn my symbol? I've written some thoughts about why—perhaps—it was important to adhere to the specifications in a reply to Sandrine. I recommend searching for it and reading it. And, do I really need someone to tell me that when I pray, it can't simply be ... MECHANICAL?

So, by that, I suppose I am saying that the SPLIT has already taken place.

There is Ghazi and his protege who probably think they are the TWO WITNESSES we read about in the APOCALYPSE. For these two, nothing matters except what THEY say and what THEY write.

My "UNDERGRADUATE" Daheshist Schooling (if I can call it this) was at the hand of my older brother, Dr. Farid, etc. THEN, of course, my graduate and POST GRADUATE was with Doctor Dahesh (with the Trustees as his the assistants). I am not a saint. I am not even priest material. I am just ME. And I'll gladly teach YOU everything I know. You'll just need to understand that is not just about giving you the "book" or the "talk."... In fact, chances are your life experience has been such that I have NOTHING to teach you—because a real Daheshist is BORN a Daheshist. Just like a Bass player! So, someone like myself might not be able to teach someone else music theory. But I can surely show you how to play like James Jamerson!
So, we're getting into COACHING versus TEACHING. Graduate School versus Grammar School. I could never be a grammar school teacher. That requires special training.

So, I suppose my point (yes, thank you Mario) is this: Ghazi Brax and Co. is a different school that Daheshville University

For the record, and personally, I have no illusion, desire, etc., for leadership.
However, heaven help any Daheshist "Leader" if they misbehave!

Also...

I TRIED to help some of them assume leadership. Honest I did.

I was a lobbiest for the Trustees. Look what THAT got me in the end.

I tried to help "O'Tool"... nothing doing. Here's 10 years down the drain practically.

First, and if you purchase my first Book "Painting with Computers" wou'll see that I dedicated a whole chapter promoting his name.

Secondly, I repeated the same deal in a national magazine.

Thirdly, I co-created his first website with him and was key in creating the look and feel of Dahesh.com etc.

Forthly, even when a reporter from the NY TIMES contacted after the erosion of Dahesh.com, wanting an interview, I told her to contact "O'Tool." I could have NOT told him. I could have jumped on this opportinity to make a name for MYSELF. Instead, and in the spirit of sharing and cooperation, I put her in touch with him.

What does HE do? Well, he pours his VENOM against the Zahid and accuses them of betrayal!

WAIT A MINUTE!!! We were supposed to DISCUSS THIS matter... He was OUT of it... NO one (according to him) could even begin to understand what he felt (and I AM the one who helped embalm Doctor Dahesh and watch his blood pumped out of his stomach, and all the incisions in this body... I had to HOLD and help turn hid DEAD BODY on the operating table) and that man is telling ME I have NO idea...

Anyway, Zionic... sorry for the tangeants...

To repeat:

Yeah, Ghazi (allegedly) has info about all that. But make sure you ASK QUESTIONS.

All the best,

Mario

[Loup Solitaire]

In my version, it would be the SPIRIT of the Prophet that will reunite us from his lofty place. In other words, we would understand that his "presence" would occur through special spiritual fluids acting as catalysts to make certain events happen.

Mario:

For the last several days I have been obsessed with the concept or idea that "the SPIRIT" was going to be essential to reinite Daheshism. I am a strong intuitive person. I can be logical, but at times I am overcome with intuition with positive outcomes.

I personally believe that spiritual intervention can be greatly enhanced through prayer and meditation. I feel further that we need a strong spiritual leader. Restraint as well as strength would be qualities needed in that person. We need to appeal to the children of the original Daheshists.

I sense that much of the problem may have to do with the fact that currently we are trying to operate in an foreign arena (the US as opposed to the Middle East), we have an aging population (those who knew Dr Dahesh best were older), the group has dispersed to a wider geographic area, etc. Am I all wet? What do you think?

[Mario]

Hi Ron,


Dr. Dahesh wrote a piece where he said he would sing when the Daheshist Religion spreads in the U.S.A. (I apologize for not having the actual piece with me right this minute and I surely will look for it. )

The U.S.A. is the place where this is meant to spread. Everything —in terms of information, archives, etc. — is in the U.S.A.
And once it spreads in the USA, I am sure other countries will pay attention to it as well. But it HAS to emanate from HERE.

Indeed, where are the sons of the "Original Daheshists?"

Where is the author of the "Letter that Shook the Daheshist World?"

In the meantime, we must make sure not to be fooled by the opportunists.

Anyone who thinks he or she CAN be a spiritual leader of the Daheshists, then let them prove it, here, in Daheshville.

Let them show us how patient, wise, human, and... effective, they really are.

But, let's start with "patience" ...

Anybody out there who thinks they have the stuff to drag "Excalibur" out of the rock and lead us, step up to the plate and let's see what you are made of.

[zionic]

Hi Ron,


Dr. Dahesh wrote a piece where he said he would sing when the Daheshist Religion spreads in the U.S.A. (I apologize for not having the actual piece with me right this minute and I surely will look for it. )

The U.S.A. is the place where this is meant to spread. Everything —in terms of information, archives, etc. — is in the U.S.A.
And once it spreads in the USA, I am sure other countries will pay attention to it as well. But it HAS to emanate from HERE.

Indeed, where are the sons of the "Original Daheshists?"

Where is the author of the "Letter that Shook the Daheshist World?"

In the meantime, we must make sure not to be fooled by the opportunists.

Anyone who thinks he or she CAN be a spiritual leader of the Daheshists, then let them prove it, here, in Daheshville.

Let them show us how patient, wise, human, and... effective, they really are.

But, let's start with "patience" ...

Anybody out there who thinks they have the stuff to drag "Excalibur" out of the rock and lead us, step up to the plate and let's see what you are made of.

My top three nominations:

Johnson
Mario
Ron

And the only reason I didn't nominate Sandrine is that she probably won't allow it anyway... But, hey, why not? Make that four nominations.

I know....it's too soon maybe.

[Loup Solitaire]

And the only reason I didn't nominate Sandrine is that she probably won't allow it anyway... But, hey, why not? Make that four nominations.

Well....I was going to nominate Mario.

But, possibly the person hasn't arrived yet, hence, prayer and meditation. By the way you are an as yet not fully explored entity.

[zionic]

Well....I was going to nominate Mario, but............ I know he would have a problem with the restraint thing.

Possibly the person hasn't arrived yet, hence, prayer and meditation. By the way you are an as yet not fully explored entity.

Ron, I found your remark about the children of Daheshists very interesting. There is a Daheshist I know of at Columbia University that has quite an interesting family (in my humble opinion), and I'm sure there are others as well. I'm impressed by him and his love for Dr. Dahesh and I'm assuming I would probably be impressed with a son or daughter of his as well.

I'm a pretty half-arsed Daheshist, if I should say so myself. I pretty much think of myself as a Christian. Do I think Dahesh was a prophet who was inspired? Yes. Did he get revelation....I think he did on occasion. Are there claims made about him that I continue to have questions about, yes there are. I still kind of cringe whenever I see the words "Dahesh is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ" (yes, I realize he didn't say it quite that way..but still). Am I headstrong and think I have the definitive answers about certain things? Yep, that's me....that's me even though I try to be openminded. I can be very dogmatic.

I'm sure one or more of these characteristics may be enough to disqualify me. And I haven't even begun to make a full disclosure of myself here at Daheshville.

Do I have a vision (a deep hope really) for the Dahesh Mission? Yes I do, but in the absence of a more complete picture of Dr. Dahesh's revelations I have little to measure that vision by.

As for the matter of restraint....I'm sure that Mario would feel plenty "restrained" if he were drafted leader of the Mission. I would hope that he would not feel stifled or smothered or overwhelmed. He might even find himself free to serve, with an endowment of inspiration to match. A leadership team is probably what we need....Mario's charisma could drive a team very well I think. The key is balance.

There is a need for a leader who can keep the channels of communication open with Ghazi Brax and the Trustees, as well as with "O'Tool" (a little emotional space should be created to separate the question of "O'Tool's" calling and certain family matters....is that possible?).

[zionic]

Well....I was going to nominate Mario, but............ I know he would have a problem with the restraint thing.

Possibly the person hasn't arrived yet, hence, prayer and meditation. By the way you are an as yet not fully explored entity.

Ron, I found your remark about the children of Daheshists very interesting. There is a Daheshist I know of at Columbia University that has quite an interesting family (in my humble opinion), and I'm sure there are others as well. I'm impressed by him and his love for Dr. Dahesh and I'm assuming I would probably be impressed with a son or daughter of his as well.

I'm a pretty half-arsed Daheshist, if I should say so myself. I pretty much think of myself as a Christian. Do I think Dahesh was a prophet who was inspired? Yes. Did he get revelation....I think he did on occasion. Are there claims made about him that I continue to have questions about, yes there are. I still kind of cringe whenever I see the words "Dahesh is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ" (yes, I realize he didn't say it quite that way..but still). Am I headstrong and think I have the definitive answers about certain things? Yep, that's me....that's me even though I try to be openminded. I can be very dogmatic.

I'm sure one or more of these characteristics may be enough to disqualify me. And I haven't even begun to make a full disclosure of myself here at Daheshville.

Do I have a vision (a deep hope really) for the Dahesh Mission? Yes I do, but in the absence of a more complete picture of Dr. Dahesh's revelations I have little to measure that vision by.

As for the matter of restraint....I'm sure that Mario would feel plenty "restrained" if he were drafted leader of the Mission. I would hope that he would not feel stifled or smothered or overwhelmed. He might even find himself free to serve, with an endowment of inspiration to match. A leadership team is probably what we need....Mario's charisma could drive a team very well I think. The key is balance.

There is a need for a leader who can keep the channels of communication open with Ghazi Brax and the Trustees, as well as with "O'Tool" (a little emotional space should be created to separate the question of "O'Tool's" calling and certain family matters....is that possible?).

[Johnson]

Thank you Ron and Zionic for your kind and thoughtful discussions. These are all issues that you and we are all sharing in, watching unfold and most importantly; discussing openly. By the nature of your queries and intuition and introspection I am honored to share in your travels of discovery.

All of our participation here is a very enlightening yet humbling experience. A good teacher learns as much from their students as the student learns from their teacher…as such they merge and become one. The questions asked shape the answers and the answers shape the next round of questions and so on and so on… Never is this scenario the ‘all knowing’ master addressing the masses… there is no all knowing master amongst us… Dr. Dahesh was this master…anything we know, anything we are, anything we have that is substantive to ponder and understand…has all come from Him. We are only left with the opportunity to discuss and hopefully, little by little and piece by piece understand for each of our respective lives what in the WORLD he was talking about.

The pieces of understanding that we have, is somewhat different for each one of us. The same words can mean different things to different hearts of different individuals. And this is the beauty of having open discussions to discuss these different shades of gray of interpretations. I may have in my mind what I think is a sound interpretation of something I have read and known, and then someone asks for an explanation or renders their understanding of the same piece and all of a sudden I see a shade of gray I would have never thought of before. I love this ‘a HAH!’ moment. This is the beauty of what goes on here in Daheshville. This is what I thank all of you for.

Daheshville is open for all to offer commentary… ask questions, offer advice, ask for help, publish writings, poems, music… anything. I can really see the growth of what this can become… and IS becoming.

Do we need a Daheshist leader? Well, we had one, and he passed away 23 some years ago. Even then, there were egos, deceptions, laughter, happiness and sadness. From what I have heard from various Daheshist brothers, the Dr.’s house in Beirut was a place where many, many people of all walks of life would get together, come and go and events and great discussions took place; large and small. There was laughter, there was yelling…there was everything…there was LIFE. I think the Dr. showed by example how a group could work and co-exist together; even with all their human shortcomings. This environment was not one of ego; that was not tolerated. How is what goes on here in Daheshville to be any different?

I am flattered by the thoughts of your nominations Zionic. I do not quite know how to address your suggestion….other than the thought that maybe we’re not quite there yet. I know you are being a little bit facetious, but I humbly decline being nominated to be in charge of anything…

Presently, at least openly and online, we are still a small group standing around on the street corner having a very interesting discussion… as far as the rest of the world, interestingly, there are dozens and some days hundreds of hits each day of people reading what we are writing. These two arenas of the ‘success’ of Daheshville make me happy and should make us all proud. One, we have a wonderful core group that we have ongoing conversations with both on and offline, and two, we have many, many people from all over the world reading and downloading what is being posted here.

My honest opinion Zionic, is that I am of Mario’s thought: I think there will be more of a spiritual gathering, or spiritual uniting rather than an actual physical leader for Daheshism…at least for now. There may be ‘coordinators’ certainly, as there is certainly a whole lot to do! …And to talk about. One thing I am sure of, Daheshism will not be run by self righteous, arrogant egos. These mentalities are in fact, self-fulfilling their own obsolescence. They can live forever in their minds with the ‘destiny’ they have and how the world will follow them one day when they decide to stand and speak… and that they are in waiting until this happens or that happens before they unveil their master plans. I openly offer my assistance to help each of these individuals and every other person to realize their fullest potentials… to whatever capacity I can. I know others here are of the same mindset. However, we are also getting quite well known to enforce...well shall I say, protocol.

Each of us has a part we can play… each of us has a role we can play…each of us has a contribution of themselves they can offer. Our goal here on Daheshville is to inspire these things within each and every one of us…and to share the journey along the way.

[Johnson]

I'm a pretty half-arsed Daheshist, if I should say so myself. I pretty much think of myself as a Christian. Do I think Dahesh was a prophet who was inspired? Yes. Did he get revelation....I think he did on occasion. Are there claims made about him that I continue to have questions about, yes there are. I still kind of cringe whenever I see the words "Dahesh is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ" (yes, I realize he didn't say it quite that way..but still). Am I headstrong and think I have the definitive answers about certain things? Yep, that's me....that's me even though I try to be openminded. I can be very dogmatic.

Zionic...thank you for sharing so openly your thoughts. I was raised Christian (Baptist) as well. Here is the thing with the true heart of being a "Daheshist". There is no one true route or journey to being a Daheshist. Frankly, for a Christian, such as you and I, if we really, really, really truly understand the essence of what Christ was talking about ( and I mean the very, very ESSENCE ) of what he taught... these are exactly the same things that Dr. Dahesh talked about. We do not, excommunicate ourselves from one belief and then hop on to adopt another. Dr. Dahesh did not come to replace ANY religion. He came to further our knowledge of the subtleties of what we already know. So it is the same for Muslims, Hindus, Jews and the essences of all religions. Daheshism is really a deeper and more in depth understanding of what we somewhat already know. Daheshism is not the replacement for other religions. It is one's personal quest to delve deeper into one's own spiritual beliefs and understandings. It kind of fills in the areas that were sort of left shades of gray because of the time and place that previous spiritual messages were delivered.

And yes, question everything!... that is how we truly know what it is we need to know.

[Johnson]

Awwwlrighty then! Cast aside the furnture and roll up the rug! Zionic is here....it's party time!!

And thank you for making me laugh!

[Mario]

Well....I was going to nominate Mario, but............ I know he would have a problem with the restraint thing.

Ron, regardless of my capacity to achieve (or not achieve) "restraint," it would be inappropriate for me to ever be (given what Brother Ali himself has —either—written me or promised me verbally through the person of the Beloved Guiding Prophet, and what Doctor Dahesh had dreamt) anything more than a protector.

And I repeat: Not THE protector. Rather, A protector.

Furthermore, Daheshville is the only Daheshist free press alive. It is not funded by anyone who might be expecting favors in return. To date, nothing has been censored.

So far, I think the results are positive. There is talk about nominating and VOTING a leader into office... a DAHESHIST leader—whoever he or she might be.

That's worth all the price of tea in China, if you ask me!

That aside, I think we've done all that we can do and now all that is left to do is trust in God.

[Loup Solitaire]

Ron, regardless of my capacity to achieve (or not achieve) "restraint," it would be inappropriate for me to ever be (given what Brother Ali himself has —either—written me or promised me verbally through the person of the Beloved Guiding Prophet, and what Doctor Dahesh had dreamt) anything more than a protector.

And I repeat: Not THE protector. Rather, A protector.

You may in fact be the protector. In fact I see that as an ideal desrciption of you. And I hope that I didn't offend by my comment. Actually, I had meant it as a tongue in cheek comment. Intelligence, creativity, strength, candor, and absence of fear are your strengths. Holding back the truth is not. However, there are times when everone needs to hear the truth.

The revalations that you have made available to me have enhanced my understanding of the Daheshists politics, which I do want to understand.

I do have a question. What is the demography of Daheshists today? Where are they? How many are there?

[zionic]

You may in fact be the protector. In fact I see that as an ideal desrciption of you. And I hope that I didn't offend by my comment. Actually, I had meant it as a tongue in cheek comment. Intelligence, creativity, strength, candor, and absence of fear are your strengths. Biting your tongue is not. However, there are times when everone needs to hear the truth.

The revalations that you have made available to me have enhanced my understanding of the Daheshists politics, which I do want to understand.

I do have a question. What is the demography of Daheshists today? Where are they? How many are there?

I've wondered that myself. Obviously there's quite a significant number of them in France...or at least it would appear. This weekend I read in the Financial Times that Sao Paulo Brazil has one million or so Lebanese....must be a Daheshist or two or three there maybe. eh?

As for the politics of Daheshism....to me it has been a stumbling block of sorts. I would love to strike up a conversation or two with folks like Ghazi Brax or any number of other open Daheshists....but I've been a little shy of the crossfire going on.

Conflict resolution is a good thing.

[Mario]

You may in fact be the protector. In fact I see that as an ideal desrciption of you. And I hope that I didn't offend by my comment. Actually, I had meant it as a tongue in cheek comment. Intelligence, creativity, strength, candor, and absence of fear are your strengths. Biting your tongue is not. However, there are times when everone needs to hear the truth.

The revalations that you have made available to me have enhanced my understanding of the Daheshists politics, which I do want to understand.

I do have a question. What is the demography of Daheshists today? Where are they? How many are there?

Ron, I am never offended by sincere candor... I am very appreciative of the fact you were sensible enough to bring this up.

I know you are "a little bit" older than I am, and I know I still have a lot to learn myself. I look to you as an older brother. So never feel that you have to spare my feelings. I know your intentions and whatever you say will help me grow as a person.