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On the nature of belief, intent, mandate and thinking for oneself...

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  • On the nature of belief, intent, mandate and thinking for oneself...

    BELIEF

    We all have a belief system that moves us to do the things we do and understand the feelings we have. When someone asks you, “What do you believe?” How do you answer? Where do you start? Do you care if your listener truly understands you? Do you merely “recite” your beliefs? … or, do you truly “explain” what your beliefs are?

    I pose these questions here, because I recently had a friend ask me this very question: “David, what do you believe in?” He wanted me to explain to him, who I was beyond what he knew of me professionally. I tried to explain to him, in the simplest way possible, the reasons for the system that I call my “beliefs” and how I got to where I am (internally) today. I tried to speak to him as a friend. I certainly would like for him to see life in a way that would be helpful to him …and I would also like to feel I reached him in a manner that maybe opened up something positive within himself…

    Mario recently recounted to me a story he heard of several brothers going to Dr. Dahesh seeking a way to reach to someone they were trying to explain Daheshism to. It seemed this individual just wasn’t really entirely open to the notion of what the brothers were explaining to him (about Daheshism).

    To paraphrase the essential idea of how the Dr. responded to the brothers…it was this:

    “Does he believe in God? If he believes in God, what does it matter if he believes in Daheshism? Whether he specifically believes in Daheshism or not… this is not the issue…”

    What does this tell us? I believe it tells us several things. One, as Christ said… “My Father’s house has many mansions (rooms)… as in, there are many paths to many peoples on their journey of spirituality. Daheshism is not THE way… it is A way… and yes, for us, it is OUR way…our chosen way... yet there are even rocks that know God.

    Secondly, yes, we would pray and hope that others can feel and understand and be aware of something wonderful that is wonderful to us… however, every person is a unique individual, at a different level of comprehension and stage in his or her life…people are not “masses”… “conversion” or “proselytizing” to bring others “in to the fold”… is not the way… and it is certainly not a “goal” that anyone should ever have.

    Things get convoluted when one’s undivided, blinded singly myopic goal is not to teach, but to convert. There is a huge difference between teaching and converting. Teaching is a selfless act. Teaching in its truest form is simple and pure. A true teacher has compassion and understanding and respect for their student. They have true a true passion and grasp of their subject matter. And most importantly, a true teacher is also forever a student. A student of life and a student to all the evolving subtleties of growing in their own knowledge… Converting on the other hand is not about the student. It is about the ego and is self serving of the one attempting the converting.

    I know that Dr. Dahesh spoke of the many wonderful virtues within the essences of many other established religions. And why would he not? In the essence of Daheshism, we hold the beauty of these other essences as well. What does this tell us? It tells us to be tolerant. It tells us to be patient. It tells us to be understanding. If we truly understand the nature of our very own beliefs, we are at peace with others that are being true and faithful to the very essence of theirs.
    Last edited by Johnson; 07-27-2007, 02:18 AM.

  • #2
    INTENT

    Within our belief system… what is our intent? What do we wish to accomplish? What do we wish to manifest within ourselves and within others? The intent of any spiritual belief system is to better ourselves… to better our spiritual selves… to improve our internal selves… to resolve our internal conflicts… to elevate our spiritual fluids that conflict us… to resolve peacefully and humanely our conflicts with others… to inspire others to rise and be the best they can be.

    My father had a funny expression he used to say many, many years ago… “Pep without Purpose is Piffle”. I looked it up only recently and found that it actually is a real expression! Albeit obscure, at best (Thanks Google!) I never thought “piffle” was an actual word either, but evidently it is from the Old English meaning “nonsense” as in “no sense”.

    Our efforts, exerted without anything meaningful behind them, are of really no value.

    There is a translation Mario shared with me and on Daheshville of something the Dr. wrote…

    "It is an obscenity that you die before you rise with good deeds toward humanity."

    What is within us? What is our true greatness? Not in terms of what we can do for ourselves against the odds of others, (the “masses”) but what can we do that is great for ourselves AND others? How can we inspire? How can we be kind and understanding when the situation seems to warrant us to be otherwise?
    Last edited by Johnson; 07-27-2007, 02:19 AM.

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    • #3
      MANDATE

      The greatest legacy that Daheshville can leave behind is that we have all have participated in creating an environment of being able to talk openly together about Dr. Dahesh and Daheshism…. And as others come along, they are encouraged and inspired to do the same. We can openly share our thoughts and experiences and creative works and questions here. We will all be proud of those that come along after us and ask questions and think for themselves as well. By asking questions, we expand our knowledge base, by thinking for ourselves, we truly understand what we believe.

      The very structure of Daheshville is to foster this openness of discussion in Daheshism. We may take this for granted today, but this did not exist in years past. 23 years ago, after Dr. Dahesh passed away… the infrastructure of ‘Daheshism’, such as it was, became a very closed and cloistered group. The Daheshist Community essential became those that were on the “inside” and those that were on the “outside”. There were many devoted followers of Dr. Dahesh that were even ostracized because they did not directly follow or they questioned the directives of this initial core group. Over the ensuing years, many have waited for the books of Dr. Dahesh to be translated and published in the English language; over the years, many have waited for Daheshism to be organized in to something that would be open and accessible to those who wanted to share in a community of Daheshism; over the years, there has been talk of inspired books that would be published as the definitive writings of all things Daheshism.

      23 years later, for all intents and purposes, none of this exists.

      Many of the initial group of those here in Daheshville were once "ex-patriots", and “outsiders” to what the mission of Daheshism was 20+ years ago… This initial group that became Daheshville had a passionate heart and a burning desire to contribute some small part to the mission of Daheshism. Alas, they were not important enough or did not follow the company line close enough to stay in certain people’s good graces... yet they shared a devotion to Dr. Dahesh.

      On the blessed days of remembrance within the Daheshist community, I know there are groups that get together somewhere, someplace with some people… but where? With whom? What was the day like? We don’t know… and this is sad. There is not a true community of organization and as such, not a true community of BROTHERHOOD or SISTERHOOD as a result of this.

      This was one of the key mandates here in Daheshville. We celebrate and mourn here together, openly, publicly…the day of Dr. Dahesh’s birthday (June 1, 1909)… the day of the beginning of the spiritual mission of Daheshism (June 18, 1942)…the day of his death (April 9, 1984). We learn and laugh and share together. Mario told me once…”In an ideal world, my personal dream would be to somehow create a place online that would remind us of what it felt like to visit Dr. Dahesh”. Every effort has been made to create this here. We as a public group have worked to be accessible to all Daheshists and other seekers of information here in the United States as well all over the world. This is a place to come to, to be a COMMUNITY of DAHESHISTS.

      But where are we now?

      Even very recently, there were comments made from some faction within the “old guard” that “Daheshville is a bad place”… This in spite of the fact that tens of thousands of pages of information here have been read online over and over by people signing on from all over the world. One of the main things that has been done here, is translating in to English, as faithfully as possible, works of the Dr. that have been accessible to us. Daheshville is a group of believers in Dr. Dahesh that have gotten together to share stories and insight and information….and at last… A FEELING OF COMMUNITY… open and accessible to EVERYONE.

      There is SO much more information that others outside this community are still, to this day, keeping for themselves almost as proprietary information, that only THEY hold… but so be it… everyone needs their fun and power and control… This, however, is not what we do here. Alas, everyone must walk their own road, face their own issues and do what they must do in their own time….

      Comment


      • #4
        THINKING FOR OURSELVES

        As Confucius said while looking at a stream, “It is always flowing, day and night…”

        Now, the “core group” in Daheshville has expanded, as has the content and resources of information relative to Dr. Dahesh and Daheshism that is presented here. There was no “mandate” to do this… this was done because we each believed it SHOULD be done. One, because we had things to say… And two, we had things to offer… to each other as well as to ourselves….and a desire to be a COMMUNITY. This was not happening anywhere before… at least not publicly or with any form of openness or accessibility or organization to anyone that wanted to come forward and participate in the greater Community of Daheshism. Now we have people from all over the world looking in… and yes we are a COMMUNITY. We are all equals. In fact, to lift the veil even further, none of us physically actually sees each other in person…or at least very rarely. (we all unfortunately live far away from each other) THIS however, is our gathering place…and, yes, THIS IS WORKING!

        We are all here presenting what we know and what we feel in the best way and manner that we are able. Again, there was no mandate on how to do this…

        The point is this… BELIEVE IN YOURSELVES! THINK FOR YOURSELVES! There is more knowledge and just good sense in your hearts than you know. For example, there apparently is more than one way to write the Daheshist prayer. Is one particular way, the RIGHT way? NO! Is your personal, heartfelt prayerful INTENT ultimately more important as to WHY you are writing the prayer than the sheer mechanics of the actual writing of the prayer? YES!

        Mario recounts to me a time he was writing his prayer and a brother saw what and how he was writing the prayer and told him he was doing it “wrong”. Worried, Mario went to the Dr, with the intent to ask him for clarification…as he approached the Dr, and even before Mario asked… the Dr. said… “just do it like you’ve been doing it…”

        God hears the faithful prayer of the goodly rock who can’t even write any prayer (at least not as we would understand it!)… why would yours not be heard as well?… if it truly is coming from your heart? This does not mean we should not put effort to improve our mechanics, it just means that the TECHNICAL is not the MOST important thing, relative to the INTENT. And this applies to many other aspects of our lives as well. THINK FOR YOURSELVES! Ask yourselves what makes sense to you and what does not.

        How do you speak to yourself of your beliefs? How do you speak to others? From everything that has been conveyed to me by people that were close to Dr. Dahesh, he spoke in very clear, realistic ways so that all could understand. Why should we do any different? We do not need to speak with dramatic hyperbole when it comes to our beliefs. We can speak in normal tones and in a manner of speech that we would customarily speak in. We can speak in tones that convey explanations of our understandings of Daheshism without resorting to “reciting” what we know… we can talk about and explain what we truly know.

        I know there is a lot of pressure in certain groups to speak their beliefs dramatically in a certain way and many are afraid to do any different than the peer pressure of those around them. Again…BELIEVE IN YOURSELVES!

        I see the inspiration of everyone that has participated and contributed here. That is undeniable.

        In closing, I want to share something from a piece written by Thich Nhat Hanh… a Vietnamese Buddhist monk. Sandrine had introduced some of his work to us here on Daheshville and his story and the stories of those affected by his work are quite remarkable:


        If you suffer, it is not because things are impermanent. It is because you believe things are permanent. When a flower dies, you don't suffer much, because you understand that flowers are impermanent. But you cannot accept the impermanence of your beloved one, and you suffer deeply when she passes away.

        If you look deeply into impermanence, you will do your best to make her happy right now.

        Aware of impermanence, you become positive, loving and wise. Impermanence is good news. Without impermanence, nothing would be possible. With impermanence, every door is open for change. Impermanence is an instrument for our liberation.

        Thich Nhat Hanh


        God be with you all.
        Last edited by Johnson; 01-04-2008, 12:00 AM.

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        • #5
          Going with The Flow ...

          Originally posted by Johnson View Post

          As Confucius said while looking at a stream, “It is always flowing, day and night…”
          A Taoist story tells of an old man who accidentally fell into the river rapids leading to a high and dangerous waterfall. Onlookers feared for his life. Miraculously, he came out alive and unharmed downstream at the bottom of the falls. People asked him how he managed to survive.

          "I accommodated myself to the water, not the water to me. Without thinking, I allowed myself to be shaped by it. Plunging into the swirl, I came out with the swirl. This is how I survived."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Johnson View Post

            And most importantly, a true teacher is also forever a student. A student of life and a student to all the evolving subtleties of growing in their own knowledge… Converting on the other hand is not about the student. It is about the ego and is self serving of the one attempting the converting.
            SO TRUE David ... We can only GROW when we are in "The Student Position" ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Johnson View Post


              It tells us to be tolerant. It tells us to be patient. It tells us to be understanding.

              If we truly understand the nature of our very own beliefs, we are at peace with others that are being true and faithful to the very essence of theirs.
              It is all about unconditional LOVE ...

              It should not be : "I can love you if you say what I want to hear, if you believe what I believe, if you like what I like ... "

              The question is : Can I love you unconditionally under all circumstances ?


              Originally posted by Johnson View Post

              If we truly understand the nature of our very own beliefs, we are at peace with others that are being true and faithful to the very essence of theirs.
              And the only evil is in the human mind ... The World in itself is perfectly right. It is rather what we believe about it that is wrong ...

              We are suffering because we believe in our own thoughts about The World, The people, our jobs, our this and that ...

              Our own misery is brought by our unconscious thinking ...

              The thinking is the cause of suffering ... That's why Peace within ourselves will bring Peace into The World.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sandrine View Post
                A Taoist story tells of an old man who accidentally fell into the river rapids leading to a high and dangerous waterfall. Onlookers feared for his life. Miraculously, he came out alive and unharmed downstream at the bottom of the falls. People asked him how he managed to survive.

                "I accommodated myself to the water, not the water to me. Without thinking, I allowed myself to be shaped by it. Plunging into the swirl, I came out with the swirl. This is how I survived."

                I love the imagery of that Sandrine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sandrine View Post
                  It is all about unconditional LOVE ...

                  It should not be : "I can love you if you say what I want to hear, if you believe what I believe, if you like what I like ... "

                  The question is : Can I love you unconditionally under all circumstances ?

                  And the only evil is in the human mind ... The World in itself is perfectly right. It is rather what we believe about it that is wrong ...

                  We are suffering because we believe in our own thoughts about The World, The people, our jobs, our this and that ...

                  Our own misery is brought by our unconscious thinking ...

                  The thinking is the cause of suffering ... That's why Peace within ourselves will bring Peace into The World.
                  Sandrine, you have such the heart. Here are more of my favorite quotes by Ghandi. I was reticent to list so many at once, for fear that any one may get lost... each and every one of these touches on the very tenents that we try each day to say and understand over and over... yet here they are, so simple, succinct and poignant. Dr. Dahesh referred to Ghandi as the prophet of the 20th century...

                  A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.

                  A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

                  A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.

                  Action expresses priorities.

                  All the religions of the world, while they may differ in other respects, unitedly proclaim that nothing lives in this world but Truth.

                  Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed. Always aim at purifying your thoughts and everything will be well.

                  Before the throne of the Almighty, man will be judged not by his acts but by his intentions. For God alone reads our hearts.

                  Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.

                  Don't listen to friends when the Friend inside you says 'Do this.'

                  First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

                  In a gentle way, you can shake the world.

                  In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart.

                  It is the quality of our work which will please God and not the quantity.

                  It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.

                  Let everyone try and find that as a result of daily prayer he adds something new to his life, something with which nothing can be compared.

                  Man becomes great exactly in the degree in which he works for the welfare of his fellow-men.

                  It is any day better to stand erect with a broken and bandaged head then to crawl on one's belly, in order to be able to save one's head.

                  My life is my message
                  Last edited by Johnson; 07-27-2007, 02:27 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by whitetiger
                    Mario said i am three louzy messages of becoming a senior member
                    Hey mario ... It's so good to read you !!!

                    I hope you are doing well and having fun where you are ...

                    You know, the day you'll become a Senior Member, we will need to celebrate that !
                    Last edited by Sandrine; 06-03-2008, 03:10 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Johnson View Post

                      A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

                      These are all wonderful thoughts to meditate upon ... Thank you for posting them all David ...

                      I do like this one : "A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes"


                      Indeed, when negative feelings occur it’s because there’s something wrong in the way we see the world, in our thinking and in our own beliefs system …

                      We may become jealous, feel anger, hate … only because we believe in our own distorted thoughts, in our own lies …

                      We may become crazy, depressed, and show destructive attitudes simply by watching and believing 'images' that are only constructions of our own mind !

                      When we realize that we are living an "inside war" with all the hardness that we’ve unconsciously allowed in our life and body, in our home, in our family or in our community – bringing this 'Awareness' could be sufficient to stop the war within us and also into the world.

                      Believing our worrying thoughts is what brings on anxiety, sadness, fears, hatred, rage …

                      This is not Reality that brings on those negative feelings, it’s the way WE see This Reality … it only comes from our mind.

                      That’s why it is important to live in the present moment, 'Here and Now' without projecting our fears that come from the past or anticipating the future.

                      When we simply begin to look around at things as they really are and not as we think/believe they are or they should be … Then we become Real and Happy with what we have …

                      That’s why we always need to question our thoughts, for example :

                      "Why I am thinking that way ?

                      Why do I think he/she should do this or that? ... Or be like that ?

                      Does what he/she thinks of me really matters ? … Can I change it anyway ...and why should I change it ?

                      Is it really true or is it a projection of what I am thinking of myself ?

                      Do I respect myself (and 'the others') when I am acting or thinking the way I do ? " Etc …

                      Clarity takes place when we honestly answer these kinds of questions, and realize what IS really true … then we will naturally be able to act out of our kind and gentle nature.

                      If we remember sweet moments that we’ve had with a Loved One and try to build our life upon This Beautiful part of ourselves … everything will change in our life because we will realize that we can be Good ...Yes, we are Good and loving !

                      And Love is always what really matters …
                      Last edited by Sandrine; 07-27-2007, 10:17 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sandrine View Post
                        These are all wonderful thoughts to meditate upon ... Thank you for posting them all David ...

                        I do like this one : "A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes"


                        Indeed, when negative feelings occur it’s because there’s something wrong in the way we see the world, in our thinking and in our own beliefs system …

                        We may become jealous, feel anger, hate … only because we believe in our own distorted thoughts, in our own lies …

                        We may become crazy, depressed, and show destructive attitudes simply by watching and believing 'images' that are only constructions of our own mind !

                        When we realize that we are living an "inside war" with all the hardness that we’ve unconsciously allowed in our life and body, in our home, in our family or in our community – bringing this 'Awareness' could be sufficient to stop the war within us and also into the world.

                        Believing our worrying thoughts is what brings on anxiety, sadness, fears, hatred, rage …

                        This is not Reality that brings on those negative feelings, it’s the way WE see This Reality … it only comes from our mind.

                        That’s why it is important to live in the present moment, 'Here and Now' without projecting our fears that come from the past or anticipating the future.

                        When we simply begin to look around at things as they really are and not as we think/believe they are or they should be … Then we become Real and Happy with what we have …

                        That’s why we always need to question our thoughts, for example :

                        "Why I am thinking that way ?

                        Why do I think he/she should do this or that? ... Or be like that ?

                        Does what he/she thinks of me really matters ? … Can I change it anyway ...and why should I change it ?

                        Is it really true or is it a projection of what I am thinking of myself ?

                        Do I respect myself (and 'the others') when I am acting or thinking the way I do ? " Etc …

                        Clarity takes place when we honestly answer these kinds of questions, and realize what IS really true … then we will naturally be able to act out of our kind and gentle nature.

                        If we remember sweet moments that we’ve had with a Loved One and try to build our life upon This Beautiful part of ourselves … everything will change in our life because we will realize that we can be Good ...Yes, we are Good and loving !

                        And Love is always what really matters …
                        Sandrine... you have posted THE post of posts. Within your words here are not only the true "secrets" of peace and happiness... but also the "secret" of life itself. So often we think we are following and feeling the meanings of the words you have written here... but so often the reality is that we are paying more lip service to them than actually being in them. To truly be within these words, and within the true reality of them... we have so many walls and inner barriers to break through and to see beyond. We have to accomplish the most difficult of tasks within ourselves... that is to be HONEST and REAL to ourselves... to see beyond our ego, our bias', our prejudices... we have to see and FACE the inherent flaws within ourselves that forever taints our understandings of ourselves. These flaws prevent us from being the truest and most honest 'we's' that we can be. We have to stand and see our flaws and shortcomings... in their true colors... and face them. How difficult it is to see ourselves for the true flawed creatures we are without wearing rose colored glasses... Now imagine a family achieving this together, a community, a region, a whole country... I think the honesty within ourselves inspires the honesty within others... I think the honesty within a COMMUNITY inspires honesty within the individual...

                        Originally posted by Sandrine View Post
                        If we remember sweet moments that we’ve had with a Loved One and try to build our life upon This Beautiful part of ourselves … everything will change in our life because we will realize that we can be Good ...Yes, we are Good and loving !

                        And Love is always what really matters …
                        Christ said, "...of Faith, Hope and Love... Love is the greatest of these..."
                        Last edited by Johnson; 07-27-2007, 10:58 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          To put in more of the verse from Corinthians...

                          I CORINTHIANS 13: 4-13

                          Love is patient, love is kind.
                          It does not envy, it does not boast,
                          it is not proud. It is not rude,
                          it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered,
                          it keeps no record of wrongs.
                          Love does not delight in evil
                          but rejoices with the truth.
                          It always protects, always trusts, always hopes
                          always perseveres.

                          Love never fails...

                          ...and now these three remain: faith, hope and love.
                          But the greatest of these is love.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know that for myself, when I read the words of what has been translated here by Dr. Dahesh...the Letter of Father Noah... the words Ghandi, the words of Christ in the Bible, the texts in English I have of the Holy Quran... I am always just so amazed at the beauty of the simplicity of the words and the sheer clarity of their meanings. When I read your writings Sandrine and those of others that have posted their thoughts and ideas and questions here, I see questions and expressions that often reflect things that sometimes I may not even have been able to articulate yet... and in those clear ideas and questions of others... I often see one more little piece of the puzzle of my own clarity of understanding. This for me is the true beauty and testament for the foundation of a having a COMMUNITY.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Let it be

                              "Put your trust in life it will always be the same sometimes good sometimes bad until we learn to walk the middle way..."

                              Walking the middle way means taking no risks, living dull. What makes life beautiful and worth living is the ups and downs we are thrown in. It may take time to get up on our feet again when we r down but it gives us the drive we need to go up.
                              Yes the world is perfect the way it is, it is useless to change anything. Life is only about choices. Sometimes we can't see past the choices we make because we don't understand them. So why have we made them in first place? Because when our deepest instincts come to the surface it's hard to fight them. It's even better to follow them. We don't need to understand and analyze everything or to hold on to beliefs that have long ago become meaningless. Opening news eyes on the world every morning makes us love it more and want to discover sides in ourselves and in the others, we haven't seen yet but that are the quintessence of our life.

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