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  • I LOVE America...

    ... That is why I want America to INTERVENE and STOP THE MASSACRE ON BOTH SIDES.

    I am an American.

    A portion of my tax dollars goes to support Israel.

    I support the existance of Israel.

    But I will not support the actions of any state when it acts like a bully or uses such a disproportional amount of force as to destroy years of rebuilding—especially when it is our ally.

    Lebanon is a complex area. From the looks of what I see on network TV, the average US citizen associates "Lebanese" with "terrorist." I and the 25,000 Americans who live(d) in Lebanon know that it is not a fair description—otherwise, why would they (have) live(d) there?

    But I don't blame the unitiated for thinking that in the wake of what we see on TV. I probably would have felt the same, except that I had the priviledge of surviving the infamous "Battle of the Hotels" (I lived right in the epicenter) ... as well as RPG explosion at close range among other things... basically I have known war "up close and personal" ... 13 straight days of mortar and rocket attacks, practically no electricity or water and whatever food we had left in the stinking (literally) fridge and water reserve we had in the attic above the kitchen. We also had butane tanks, and that is how were able to cook and preserve the food. We were on the second floor... not in a bomb shelter... We and our neighbors were huddled together in the entryway...(did I mention that our building immediately faced the Holiday Inn hotel and was used as a shield?) After that, the "real fun" began... becoming a refugee. I have tasted humiliation and despair of (almost) became a war statistic myself...all before reaching the ripe ol' age of "16."

    Neither my family or I, nor our neighbors, or ANYONE in "Ras Beirut" (The famous night club disctrict) was remotely POLITICAL let alone a terrorist. Yet, WE were the victims... Caught between "that group" and "that other group."

    And GOD help you if you really expressed what you thought... Civil wars are ugly things... Brother against brother...

    And I know how it feels to lose everything and to be left with only the clothes on your back, a car, and whatever money your father was able to take out of the bank... I also know what it feels like to and resent kids your own age, living a carefree life (up in the mountains), totally oblivious to what you had gone through...

    My God... The NOISE alone... One of the things I resented most about the war was the fact I could no longer enjoy war movies! Do you know why? Because there were no longer realistic... "That's not what a machine gun sounds like... what a joke!"

    And if you think what I experienced was bad, try asking my older brother. He's seen 10 times what I have seen!

    And when I watch the news...I cannot even phathom NOT having money OR a car...

    By the grace of God I was able to finally come to America and become a US citizen. I consider myself the luckiest man alive, and I am perhaps in no position to speak considering that others have experienced a lot worse war episodes than me. Still, thank you for indulging me.

    I have MANY friends in Israel and I love them.

    I have MANY friends in Lebanon and I love them too.

    They are all caught in God-knows-what web "someone" is weaving ...

    There are those who believe that the end justifies the means.

    That's easy to say when you are not caught in the middle.

    It is absolutely illogical (sorry Mr. President) to Veto a stem cell research bill, under the guise of "decency" while we, Americans, do nothing to stop the Killing.

    2 wrongs don't make a right.

    Did we throw an Atomic bomb because we lost 3000 innocent victims on 9/11?

    Why not?

    Because that would have been "indecent."
    Last edited by Mario; 07-22-2006, 10:27 AM.
    "Fail, to succeed."

  • #2
    Beautifully expressed as usual Mario. Growing up here in the United States, I have experienced a much more "sheltered" life than you and others that have experienced such things first hand. I readily admit this. While we certainly have had our version of " crisis' " here, they have at least all occured within the context of fairly safe and just envirionment. I cannot even in my wildest imagination begin to fanthom what you have experienced and what so many are experiencing today.

    The ever growing horrifying acts going on in the Middle East break the hearts of all who have a breath of humanness anywhere within themselves. This melee has escalated to such epic proportions that it is no longer about who started what, or why one’s means seem to justify one’s end.

    Families of children, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, grandparents, loved ones, friends….unarmed, frightened innocents… caught amidst a growing dervish of evils are dying unnecessarily.

    WHO has the power to exercise bringing some form of resolution to the table? I do not think that amidst this growing horror there is a NEGOTIATED resolution. PARAMETERS need to be set and LINES needs to be drawn and a RESOLUTION enforced. The senseless killing must stop.

    ONLY AMERICA on today’s world stage has the might to set and ENFORCE any such form of guidelines to bring this about. America needs to step up and take a place in the TODAY and say THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS. A FREE Israeli state must exist… A FREE Arab state must exist. All peoples need a home that is not volatile, unsafe or threatened by the instigators that use these areas as a field to play out their horrific motives and atrocities.

    I am not saying that America should support both sides, or play through the middle or establish a “mini America” in the region. I am not saying that “in the name of American Democracy” we need to do this. I am saying that in the NAME OF HUMAN RIGHTS and DECENCY…a line needs to be drawn, boundaries set and a NEW ORDER ESTABLISHED.


    I am an American. I was born here, my parents were born here. We as a NATION, that claims to hold so dear the ideals of LIBERTY, TRUTH and FREEDOM cannot sit back and wait it out for a solution. A solution left to the parties involved continually erodes in to the aggressive tyrannies and atrocities that we are witnessing today and through out known history.

    America in so many of its international dealings has not been perfect and I disagree and am mortified by many of our current “policies”. However, I must speak to the America to which I am born and belong…



    • #3
      I have just re-read my post... and even I can hear the naivate. The issues are all more complex than I could ever understand and culturally and emotionally and spiritually run deeper than I could even begin to claim to be able to talk about.

      I do not feel America or America's ways need to be injected everywhere in the world. I think the world (as well as many Americans) kind of snicker at the United Nations as really meaning "The U.S." and those that follow "The U.S." But who else can "step in" to enforce, or establish or administer a resolution? Great Britain? The European Union? The Middle East itself?

      I understand the resentments against America. I understand the love for America. It is because of all these resentments, I wonder if America can be effective in yet another place in the world.

      For discussion... What would others propose? I would really love to hear others' perspectives from the other parts of the world that are represented here on this forum. I know this is a simple request that requires far reaching answers. As a parameter, I do not want to be thought of as the "gung ho" American contingency. I am not. I am a Daheshist, a humanist. I truly want to hear and understand what others could see as being realistic steps that could be taken... and who could take them... who could enforce them...
      Last edited by David; 07-20-2006, 08:40 PM.


      • #4
        I hate

        I hate America,
        It’s a whore speaking about the honor, speaking about something and doing something else, it’s trying to force the others to except what does think its right, and no body knows.
        A drunken president and a bloody administration around him, all of them are thirsty for blood, they are trying to kill anyone, even the children and the women to take the others Benevolent, and it’s a new Colonization in beautiful names.
        I hate America because it has the blind vision, it weights in different scales, it supports the killer and forced the victims, it enjoys the others pains, it dances on the children cry, it laughs for the woman Mourns her husband, it looks careless for a sister Buring her lonely brother,
        They are looking for the freedom as a holy thing, their freedom, not the others. And they care about the human rights, not the others rights. Because the others are not humans.They think themselves are better than the others, and what is accepted for them is forbidden for the others. They think themselves are above the law.
        America are not fair, and it will pay for its injustice.
        There is God, and observe what they are doing.

        I hate Lebanon,
        They make the worse with an innocent person, accused for no reason, jailed with no court, tortured without a judge, striped of his nationality without any scared, exiled far away without any defense upon himself. Executed without their eyes glimpse by the others as no one will ask for him.
        A mule president, guided by a dissolute whore, with a mute and deaf people made that, so we have to pay for that,
        I hate Lebanon, because it’s not a country, it’s just some peoples are collected, it’s not a mind or brain, it’s a hands, even this hand it’s not belong to them, just do what the others want,
        I hate Lebanon, because it can not protect it’s people, it’s the weakest country in the world.
        God, please delete this country of the existence map.
        Why not?
        Last edited by Hussein; 07-21-2006, 01:10 AM.


        • #5
          A Daheshist Does Not Hate...

          My dear Brother Hussein,

          Dahesh himself said "A Daheshist does not hate."

          Ask my brother "C" and he will confirm my words.

          You are angy and I understand. But you cannot judge all of America that way, especially when you know that the Doctor loved America.

          If America is behaving badly, we should show it the way.

          And if indeed God will punish us Americans for the acts "we" are committing (to paraphrase what I think you meant by saying: " America are not fair, and it will pay for its injustice. There is God, and observe what they are doing." ) then so be it. I will accept God's punishment for having chosen to live in America and love America.

          Here are a few links that prove that not all Americans are as bad as you feel... And again, I know you are outraged. But I beg of you, do not let the Dark Side take over... It WANTS you to hate... Don't let it... Please

          Your Brother, Mario


          Noam Chomsky On Israel's Attack on Lebanon & Gaza

          Ralph Nader: U.S. Carries "Inescapable Responsibility" for "Israeli Government's Escalating War Crimes"

          Helen Thomas

          Israeli Professor in Haifa Blasts "Reckless" Assault on Lebanon

          VIDEO LINKS

          Anti-Occupation Activist in Jerusalem Speaks on Lebanon
          (He sheds light on international law)

          Israeli activist speaks on present Israel-Lebanon conflict
          (Proof that not all Israelis want war)

          Last edited by Mario; 07-22-2006, 10:24 AM.
          "Fail, to succeed."


          • #6
            Dear Mario,
            When we hate we hate the done it self, not the person or the country.
            And in my post, I speak about the American government and the people whose support their policy; it’s the sayyals which are closed to each other. It’s the same sayyals which elected this administration. Have a look for their faces (George Bush, rice, poloton, chini etc...) just add some long to their ears, and you will see a group of Satans and Devils.
            What do you think about someone is refusing to stop the war? He is criminal. It’s an easy answer. The one who is sharing in the crime, he is criminal. Look what Marie Haddad said:” let the injustice people and the others whose didn’t prevent the injustice, their punishment will be Horrible”.
            They can stop the war, they can stop killing the civilians, but they won’t, why? Because they are enjoying the bloody view, it’s like a movie for them. Sorry, how can we ask them to stop killing in Lebanon and they are killing some where else. Look every where, this is Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Lebanon, and later Iran or Syria, and may be sometime will be the North Korea etc…They are looking from the others to obey.
            After the Sep.11 Bush said:” who is not with us, he is against us”. And now I say:” who doesn’t hate Bush and his administration, he loves them”.

            Remember Houlako, Taymour lank, Jankiz khan, what is the difference between them and George Bush, rice, poloton, chini. Just the names. All of them are savages and criminals.
            And I think the Doctor Dahesh himself attack the bad done and the bad thoughts in the person as well as in the countries.
            I know there are a lot of people are not with the administration, and they are against the war. They are a little, just a few voices from here and there, no effect. Yes I appreciate these kinds of people, they are the peace lovers, and they are the peace makers.And I love their done.
            Last edited by Hussein; 07-21-2006, 02:13 AM.


            • #7
              Dear Hussein,

              Despite my personal experiences, I am convinced that there is no way I can truly appreciate what you are feeling, nor be able to walk in your shoes.

              It would be so much easier for me if you were talking about Ireland.
              The British Government never bombed Ireland, despite the fact that the IRA is considered to be a terrorist group. In fact, and if memory serves me, even America dealt with the leader of the IRA (which did not please England).

              But the IRA never attacked America.

              The way I see it is that America can't seem to bring itself to forgive 9/11.

              While nothing justifies what the current administration is (or is NOT) doing, one has to take into consideration that when 9//11 occurred, "America's" heart was first churning with fire, then it turned to "cold ice."

              All that Americans can remember is watching (over the television) people choosing their own death. Many jumped jump from the top of the tower rather than to be consumed in the flames.

              Then they saw the towers go down...and with them, 3000 innocent people died.

              Then they saw many people cheer...

              (Please, let me finish.. I know you must be saying "but WE didn't cheer!!!")

              What does an American, living in comfort know about a Palestinian in a refugee camp? How can that American understand what might have brought an Arab—who has lived in practically a concentration camp all his life—to utter such words?

              But, that same American, naive in many respects, sees the world as "black and white." In other words, "oh, so they hate us, then they must be the enemy."

              This is in a country where we have Oprah and Dr. Phil and a whole bunch of talk shows where the (so-called) complexity of the human emotions are discussed ad nauseam (to a sickening degree).

              I just heard an American on Radio yesterday say to Edward Sununu ( "We should not even go and rescue the Americans in Lebanon because they ought to know how dangerous that whole area is and it is their fault for being there."

              My point being is this (and I think David would agree with me): Americans are (sometimes) naive. HOW many times did we see the Americans go into a country (Somalia, for example) and Beirut (1982) and get OBLITERATED.

              The problem, typically, is that America does not understand the Nuances that exist in the Middle East.

              This is why, initially, David wrote the prayer for the troops we, Americans, are sending only to be OBLITERATED.

              Because, ultimately, wether you are an average American (which we are) or an average Lebanese, you're caught in the middle.

              Many American mothers mourn their sons and daughters who were killed fighting in a war that THEY not believe in. Yet, because they are duty bound, they did their duty towards "God and Country."

              We may "hate" the Bush administration's actions, but we (Americans) are nevertheless citizens bound by certain duties towards the process.

              And if you were to live in the USA you would see that MANY are outraged and not simply a small group.
              But there is a process that must be followed and battles to be fought in the legal courts.

              Of course, in the meantime, the death toll is rising. But I assure you, so is the sense of outrage in America.

              Now, let's bring in the DAHESHIST perspective:

              I don't know much about your history (as I am sure you don't know about mine), so you'll excuse me for perhaps giving you information you already know.

              Dahesh himself (and a group of Daheshists) endured many horrific war episodes. Starting with the Battle of the Hotels. We faced the Holiday Inn, while he, the Murr Tower. Plus, all his enemies who took advantage of the war in order to get rid of him once and for all. May it be the rockets especially targeting the house, or the huge car mine that was placed under the wheel of car parked RIGHT outside his house. In other words, there was NO way of dismantling the mine since the wheel was already pressing down on the detonator (I'll write the full story in another thread if you like and explain the whole incident and how they were saved).

              My brothers C, J, and G and another Daheshist were taken away to be shot, but a miracle happened.

              I am not sure if it happened on the same day, but C was caught (outside) in a barrage of Mortar shells and the Daheshist Martyr, Ali Ombargi, may God rest his soul, ran immediately down to see if anyone was hurt, and as he was rushing out of the door, another Mortar fell and exploded, sending a shrapnel into his brain... The Doctor went deaf from the blast, as its shockwave flung him away from the window, as he rushed to see if everything was OK. Ali Ombargi died later...

              One night, C calls me (because they all had instructions to call "Mario" if they needed to contact the Doctor) yelling and screaming at me "WHY DON'T YOU CALL!!! DO YOU NOT CARE!!!???"

              The American destroyer had literally taken the roof out of the house where C and Z and some other Daheshists were staying (The Doctor was in American, and I was the phone-relay point)

              I am sorry to say I lost my cool and I yelled back at him, telling him that he has no right to yell at me, that he didn't understand that I am in NO position to call anyone (in other words, whenever I call anyone, they are going to think the Doctor asked me to do so, and that, I could not do... In other words, by being a spokesperson (as C was in Beirut) my hands were tied... But I was very young and I wish I had the patience I had today...

              In any case, neither C nor the Doctor, despite the fact that it was "an honest but utterly stupid and miscalculated mistake" ever commented on America.

              And, now, I am coming to my point:

              You are a DAHESHIST first and foremost.

              Still, you MUST do your duty towards your community, your people, your town, your country. (I know, in Lebanon, there IS no country...but let's assume there is) That is important. Even Gandhi, when asked if he would fight the Nazis said yes, because, as a member of the British Empire, he had certain obligations if he expected to reap the benefits of being a part of that British Empire.

              And YET, that SAME British Empire placed him in prison and killed SO many Indians.

              When did Gandhi ever express hate? (Gandhi has a Sayyal from Dahesh, that is a fact. My brother "C" said it on TAPE)

              You can be outraged. You can be angry... But, I repeat, and I will keep repeating it until I am blue in the face and I don't care if you decide to hate ME afterwards, you CANNOT hate.

              Hate is a point of NO return.

              Hate condenses our Sayyals to such a point that they fall down... regardless of how right we are.

              The only advice I will permit myself to give is this:

              Regardless of what is done to us, we should not cross that point of no return.

              And I will repeat what I said in another thread: Shame on those so-called Daheshists for following those who went on record saying there is no Daheshist Mission. It is THOSE people that I blame. Because of them Daheshism is broken into pieces.

              I said it once and I will say it again: we, Daheshists, had we been united in spirit, we might have been able to LIFT THE CURSE that is forever looming over Lebanon.

              Yes, maybe "the devil" is destroying Lebanon. But, WHO, in the first place, created him?

              Hussein, I am referring to the prophecy of Haleem Dammoos, the great Daheshist Poet.

              I thank you for listening and I hope you and yours are safe.

              Last edited by Mario; 07-21-2006, 10:15 PM.
              "Fail, to succeed."


              • #8
                On the issue of naivete

                I feel I need to expand on that comment I made above in my response to Hussein, where I said that, we Americans are naive in many respects, and that we tend to see the world as "black and white." In other words, "oh, so they hate us, then they must be the enemy."

                This is a long discussion but I feel I must present a short explanation:

                Thanks to the Mass Media, all what many see is that "Team A" attacked and kidnapped 2 soldiers from "Team B."

                They either forget or ignore the fact that both "Teams A & B" have been attacking and "kidnapping" each others' "soldiers" for years, in order to use them as leverage.

                They don't even remember that "Team B" ACTUALLY negociated with "Team A" an exchange of soldiers and bodies-not so long ago.

                So it doesn't matter that, suddenly, "Team B" (our ally) decided to change the rules and mount a hugely disproportional response, which then launched "the war" and we know what happened next... innocent victims being slaughtered on both sides (Some even suggest we're seeing WWIII in the making...)

                Anyone who is truly impartial and looking at the bigger picture, and even IF "Team A" is a terrorist group by definition, will see that, by virtue of the fact "Team B" has been engaging in these on and offs attacks/kidnappings/negotiations, would be hard pressed to understand the incredible disproportional response on the part of "Team B".

                Unless, of course, they factor in the issue of "temporary insanity." Bottom line, under that logic "Team B" snapped.

                And now, and despite the fact that "Team B" didn't even respond to the SKUD missile attacks during the first Iraq war, have shown that (they also) are capable of acting irrationally.

                But the average American who has groceries to pick up, dinner to prepare, bills to pay... you know...a life...doesn't really have any time to "process all that information."

                And what adds to the dilemma is that the Mass Media, ever since President Reagan passed a law, no longer have the moral obligation to put the public ahead of the sponsors (I am paraphrasing what Robert Kennedy Jr. said during an interview with Charlie Rose, on PBS). That means that ultimately, the Mass media is putting the sponsors first. The result is an average American who works hard, plays hard, watches TV to rest after a hard day's work, while being bombarded with advertising.

                The world is not always a pretty picture... But we are not going to change it by either losing our head, our temper, etc.

                And anyone who says "why change the world" or "why" is giving up, especially if they are a Daheshist and they believe that Dahesh's spiritual mission has meaning.
                Last edited by Mario; 07-22-2006, 01:45 AM.
                "Fail, to succeed."


                • #9
                  Dear Mario,
                  If we are speaking about Ireland or about America or another country, we speak as Daheshists, not as natives. The truth it should be shown in our words, not the Affiliation.
                  And not every thing is the American administration say, that’s mean the absolutely truth, and not what ever it Classificates the peoples means the truth. And who gave her the right to classificate the peoples? Do they think themselves goddes and goddesses? And if you don’t know the political history of the area, I excuse you, and when they classified the IRA as terrorist that because they and the British in one pants, and every one is not belong to them, should be destroyed. And if you are not obeying the Israel’s orders, you will be enemy for both America and Israel with addition to england. politics means lies, isn’t it Mario.
                  Mario, not every one is protecting his country, or resists the occupation country means terrorism, France after the Nazi’s occupied it, they made the resistance, and they fought against them, what you say about them:” terrorist”. If yes, and I don’t think so, that means, the strongest countries can occupy any country and the others have no right to resist, and sure it is not true. With above all of that, tell me , why do we have a united nation, sure it doesn’t make any thing for the poor and weak countries, because it’s belong to America, and the veto is always raise up against the U.S.A opposed.
                  And about the American soldiers who are fighting in different places in the world wide, no body forced them to do that, if they are not by their own will. And if you read the news, you will find many rapes cases and civilians murder. And I think the one who has the minimum of faith and moral, he will feel shame of that, while the president Bush gave them the green light, and made the laws as the American administration see from their view point, not from the moral and behave view point.
                  And you said:” Many American mothers mourn their sons and daughters who were killed fighting in a war that THEY not believe in. Yet, because they are duty bound, they did their duty towards "God and Country."
                  First of all, it’s not fighting for God, God never asked the people to kill each other for any reason.
                  Second, Mohammad Ali (the famous boxer), I think you know his story, and how did he refuse to fight the Vietnamese, and his famous words are:” Why I have to go Vietnam and kill some one made nothing to me”. And he suffered in jail for two years because of that, and he lost the Dubbed of the championship of the world.
                  I think the soldiers who don’t believe in the war, they can make the same. But because of their Sayyals, it’s a murder Sayyals, so they involved in the war. Do you think, if they ask Dr. Dahesh to go and fight some where, what do you think, he will do? Sure not.
                  In the same time, I’m not with any armed group, what ever is it.
                  My opinion, every one is fighting out of his country, he is a murder. What ever the reason is.
                  You have the right to defense your country, who ever the Aggressor is.
                  Mistakes will never be solved by another mistake.
                  Killer the killer is a killer.
                  Supporting the killer, sharing in his murder.
                  Look to Gandhi what he is saying:” every one is sharing in the war some how, even the doctors and nurses, they are murders”.
                  Sorry Mario, I would like to stop talking about war and politics, its look likes the Byzantine argument, and I’ll leave it to the others. I prefer to be Daheshist, and nothing else.
                  First and foremost we are Daheshists, and we are not belong to any war, nor injustice, and we are not going to support any of the Fighting, and we are not a part of any of them, we believe in God, and our Beloved Guiding Prophet, and we are trying to behave our self, and war will never help us to do that. And at last, it’s the Sayyals punishing itself.
                  God bless every one.
                  Last edited by Hussein; 07-22-2006, 10:06 AM.


                  • #10

                    Dear Hussein,

                    You can't go into the Temple where some of us were placing prayers, pontificate and express self-righteous indignation, then open up a thread called "War in Lebanon" and later express your political views with anger and hate (which is your God given right), then go on record saying "I hate America...I hate Lebanon" and that America (according to you) will be "punished by God..." and that you want Lebanon "wiped out" ... thus causing me to reply using long-winded responses in order to calm you down ... only so that you suddenly decide you don't want to continue talking about politics.

                    Well, be my guest. Meanwhile, I'll continue addressing the issues you forced everyone here to consider (starting with your initial thread):

                    First, I thought I was making an argument in your favor. Which was, once again, that even though the British considered the IRA terrorists, they did not bomb Ireland. Whereas the Israelis bombed Lebanon. And, based on that argument alone, one could argue that Israel went overboard. Again, a side-by-side comparison.

                    Second, Daheshism is a faith and not a country. In other words, an American (or Lebanese) Daheshist IS a member of the American (or Lebanese) society and IS expected to participate in that society, to get involved and learn about its policies, to understand them and, when needed, to criticize them (or support them). Otherwise, you would have anarchy and that cannot be.

                    Third, true, calling someone a terrorist is a relative notion. In other words, to me, "certain groups" in the Middle East are terrorists because they are bent on killing Americans, whether civilians or military.

                    I will go on the record once again saying that no one has the right to kill civilians.

                    If, as you say, my government is killing civilians, then we (the people) using due process, will investigate the matter. Yes, the political system I belong to has flaws. But if you take the time and read my posts, you will see that I am (with passion, and NOT anger or hate) voicing my opinion—and that's all I can do, as well as VOTE.

                    As for politics being lies... That's nothing new.

                    Even the legal system is not about always about justice but about strategy, tactic, and making deals...about "winning the game."

                    Still, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a legal system.

                    Isn't eating meat involves taking the life on an Animal? Isn't THAT also a crime?

                    And what if George Bush is in fact inspired by GOD himself to do what he is doing? (If I may present one theory based your belief system?)

                    You might argue "GOD does not kill!"

                    Well, look at Sodom... Didn't GOD (according to YOUR belief) destroy it and wipe it OFF the face of the earth by sending "fire from the sky?"

                    So, going by that logic, why hate George Bush if there is the possibility he is "an instrument of God" and therefore fulfilling GOD's prophecy (the one you evoked in your "I hate Lebanon" bit)?

                    Again, I am NOT saying that this is what I believe.

                    I am merely... Debating, and perhaps (using absurd examples) showing that there is no answer... But that does not mean one should stop living or commit suicide! No, what I am referring to is this: when we truly suffer the pain of pondering certain issues, the only way out is overcoming the anger. And even if we have to go to war, so be it, as long as we don't fight a dirty war and do not hate our ennemy. I know this sounds strange... But killing in battle does not always equate "murder."

                    And as far as Vietnam: I've known many who fought in the war and others who defected to Canada. Both agree on the following: All those who stood by, watching, and NOT taking either side (in other words, "neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm") were the real problem... I see that here in Daheshville also... sadly.

                    To be continued after I think about some of the other many issues you raised... All valid and good, and worth debating. Why? Because Daheshism is also about living on planet Earth and dealing with all its good and bad aspects...

                    And politics is part of that system we are all forced to live under.

                    Even in Daheshism, there is politics. Look around you... People taking sides, following this or that person, and forgetting Dahesh himself.

                    And once again, I will go on record by stating the following declaration:

                    If the people who own the Dahesh Museum and the Daheshist Publishing House hadn't openly denied the existence of a spiritual mission, and had embraced to at least some degree, the starting of getting the message out...maybe the word of Dahesh being heard in America might have helped lift the darkness that seems to be ever looming over us.

                    In other words...


                    Last edited by Mario; 07-22-2006, 01:43 PM.
                    "Fail, to succeed."


                    • #11

                      I agree with you when you say that a Daheshist does not hate …
                      A Daheshist can cry, be sad, be angry, passionate ... He/She will not hate …

                      Mario, we learn a lot when we read your posts … you teach us humility … you give us a lot of your own life-experience which is really generous …
                      You are spending your time, your patience and your emotions for people who certainly read you eagerly …

                      You tell us what was your life with the Doctor, your thoughts, your “secrets”, your private life with A PROPHET ! … This is such a gift ! Maybe you give us too much … Do we really deserve it ?

                      When we read “some” of the words written in previous posts of this thread … I am asking myself : “ Are we able to understand what you are writing ?” … “Do we really read what you are saying/writing?” …

                      I pray for Hussein’s family to be safe and for all those who are suffering from this poignant situation in Lebanon …
                      I think of you all …



                      • #12
                        Thank you Sandrine. That means a lot to me.

                        All that matters to me in the end is that Hussein is able to dissociate himself enough from the fact he is living in pure hell... and rise to a level of inner peace.

                        I know it is not easy to do. Believe me, I do. When we were bombarded for 13 straight days, we couldn't even leave the apartment. Every day we thought "that was the end." Then we left. Then we lost everything. Then we wandered for 4 years. Worse, I had to live right in the area controlled by the Phanlanges, the sworn ennemies of the Doctor.

                        Many of my friends would later join the Phalanges. Others would wonder how come I didn't join the fight.

                        While kids normally deal with "typical" peer pressure (sex, drinking, smoking) my peer pressure was "join the fight or you are a traitor."

                        Well I didn't join the fight and I will not bore you (here) with how I was able to BOTH stay out of the Phalange army AND be popular at the same time. But just imagine hearing a knock on your door at night, and your mother opening and seeing the village "bully" with his 38 caliber in his holster, saying "um... Good evening Mrs. Chakkour, but can Mario help me with my Math?"

                        I was in a very difficult situation as well: my "ennemy" (technically speaking) was also my protector. In other words, being that I was a Christian (by birth) and lived among the christians (who also protected me) I was a target for (among other things) for all those who wanted to invade Mount Lebanon.

                        And what I found out was this: not all the Phalanges heard about Dahesh. In fact, I remember trying to explain Daheshism to a couple of Phalange leaders. One of them was a our science teacher in school, a handsome russian Immigrant, who was a SCUBA diver expert and would be recruited by the Phalanges to train their rescue teams. "A." and his team—many were school mates of mine, would do and conduct RESCUE missions during the fighting when Syria was bombarding the Christians.

                        Imagine the tears my mother shed, as "A." who also became my best friend, would come in, with his SCUBA team, to visit with us, and have dinner (they loved my Mom's cooking) before they went out and did the impossible.

                        I loved these guys... Yet, they were all part of a military organization that (little did they know) persecuted my Prophet...

                        I would eventually tell "A." (he was 30 I was 17) and the first thing he said to me was "Ca doit etre un charlatan!" (He wanted to protect me, of course) but over many months, I would continue talking to him and he would listen. But he was too involved in the Phalanges... They gave him Lebanese Citizneship and a country.

                        Anyway, I could go on and on...

                        So, trust me, I know about war, I know about fear, I know about having to make difficult choices.

                        Oh, and many times "A." (who now was like a member of the family) dropped my mother and I right at the doorstep of the Doctor's house (it's not as if anyone in the Phalanges didn't know where he lived) and not once did the Doctor tell me not to associate myself with him. On the other hand, he was clear in his opinion about the Phalanges organization. After all, they were the ones that Bechara El Khoury, may God show him the "pleasures" of the Inferno for ever, hired as his thugs.

                        The reason I know all this is not because the Doctor told me about it.
                        I am among the very few Daheshists who read "Innocent in Chains."

                        Anyway, it is very easy to "hate" your ennemy. Life takes on a completely different meaning when you find yourself truly "loving" and "praying" for those who are misguided and brainwashed to hate you.

                        Make no mistake about it, when one of my friends, a Phalange, hear I knew one particular Dahehist who lived in his neighborhood, he snickered "oh, that guy is a follower of Dahesh'" to which I exploded "AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT!?"

                        When my favorite French teacher, who I adored, turned began saying "Take Dahesh for example, he is the Devil... I don't know how he does it, but it absolutely certain he has powers given to him by the devil" (This from an educated man...) Anyway, this was in Ajaltoun, circa 1977 or 1978, and I remember raising my hand and saying "Monsieur, Doctor Dahesh, in his books talks about God a lot..."

                        "What books?" he said.

                        Anyway, I was so sad that my favorite teacher had this view...

                        But another one of my teachers (who taught us French right BEFORE the Civil war) mentioned him and the book "Je suis un Daheshiste". I later went up to him and said "if you like, I can arrange for a meeting between you and Doctor Dahesh." (of course, I received the "OK" before hand)

                        He said yes and he witnessed miracles.

                        However, and while he never denied that what he saw was supernatural, he never crossed that bridge.

                        That teacher WAS also with us at Ajaltoon and WAS also PRO-Phalanges... But he never harmed me

                        Incidentally, for those who don't know, the Phalanges is the Military organization that went in the Camps of Sabra and Chatila and massacred thousands of Palestinian refugees, while the Israeli Army (who had invaded Lebanon at the time) did nothing.

                        They are also the group who would kidnap and torture three Daheshists in (I believe) 1982.

                        The persons responsible for that crime were a Daheshist woman and her younger brother... who was my best friend...(see my "I once called a Traitor Brother" a work in progress).

                        Anyway (yes, I do have a point to make, after all) in (circa) in 1978 I was torn, VERY torn. I was feeling guilty all the time. The mere idea of feeling a sense of humanity to a select members of a group who (by definition) were the ennemy of Daheshism weighed heavily on me. Then again, I was young...

                        Then again, every now and "ZEN" the answer comes from "above."

                        More particularly from my brother "G" who was standing right next to me as I sat opposite the Doctor in his kitchen in Beirut.

                        "G" who lived in West Beirut and had witnessed (along with the other Daheshists) horrible events, and had more right than anyone here to express anger and hate (which he didn't of course), just shook his head after listening to me give him the gist of my dilemma and said to me "don't get wrapped into the issue of having to choose sides...Just live your life there normally and let go." (in other words, "it's a paradox and there is nothing you can do, no right or wrong answer.")

                        There is no place for Hate here. Only resolute patience.

                        And I am sorry if some resent the fact that I am not living in Lebanon nor experiencing the hell that they are experiencing. Originally, I never really wanted to leave Beirut in 1975. But "Black Saturday" forever changed our lives and I was never able to go back.
                        I am sorry if they resent the fact I consider myself an American citizen.
                        I am sorry if they resent the fact I might be perhaps "preaching" from my pulpit, while they experience hardship.

                        All I can do is offer them my emotional support and the benefit of my (perhaps) limited perspective... and the occasional protest song...After all, I am a mere artist. No more, no less.

                        Last edited by Mario; 09-15-2006, 01:56 PM.
                        "Fail, to succeed."


                        • #13
                          Dear Mario,
                          If some one killing an American you call him a terrorist, please may i know what you call the American when they kill someone in his own country?
                          I excuse you mario, you are reading only the American news, try to watch some other channels.
                          are you really believe that the president Bush inspired by God to do what he is doing? really do you believe that? Bush itself said that, he said he is inspired and he has prophecy, and if Israel the country didn't raise up, Jesus will not be shown again. Do you believe in that? and you know Jesus already came.
                          And what is the comparment between Sodom and Amora.
                          it was another planet bombardment them, not another peoples in the name of democracy and human rights!
                          And do you think the world wide people forgave Hitler for what he did? even as your belief, it was the instrument of God.
                          By the way, i would like to tell you something here, i'm not defending any one, and i'm not belong to any one, and i never support any one of the Fanatic people, who ever they are. Even i never Buy their newspaper, because in my mind the money will go to buy a bullet to shoot some one some where, and may be they will shoot us some day.
                          Just i'm trying to explain my view point for the crisis in any place in the world.
                          And when i said i'll stop talking about the politic, i mean that. because really, again ( i hate the politic and the politicians). And i know , there is no way for any one to get the truth.
                          best regards.


                          • #14
                            Hussein Wrote: If some one killing an American you call him a terrorist, please may i know what you call the American when they kill someone in his own country?

                            If you are going to quote me, please quote me correctly: I said : "... killing Americans, whether civilians or military."

                            I am referring to the fact that (supposedly) in America, we have "Terrorist" cells ready to kill Americans (once again...) "whether civilian or military."

                            Hussein Wrote: I excuse you mario, you are reading only the American news, try to watch some other channels.

                            Thank you. But the fact of the matter is I watch everything. And if you actually read my posts, you will see that I posted one link to a video showing an Arabic News Cast. In addition, I've provided many web links that show Lebanese-American support for an immediate cease fire. In case you don't know, Ralph Nader, for example, is Lebanese. His letter to our President was very strong. Again, in all my posts I aimed at giving you hope that those who felt the war was wrong were voicing their outrage. And again I will repeat, you were too consumed by your anger to notice.

                            And for that, (and as you've said it to me twice already) I excuse you. It would seem that the difference between you and I is that you are (and rightly so) still angry (or, perhaps, emotionally charged). Whereas, my anger has dissipated. I am not saying you should not be angry. Only that we should take it into consideration.

                            Hussein Wrote: Are you really believe that the president Bush inspired by God to do what he is doing? really do you believe that?

                            Well, if you read my post, I say that it is an absurd theory. And I when I say "Inspired by God" (just so that we are clear) I am referring to a spiritual Sayyal that inspires him to commit an act. And when I say "inspire" I don't necessarily mean that God REALLy spoke with him, OK? First of all, I don't believe that God talks to any mere mortal. Sometime, some people, imagine that God speaks to them and then they act upon it. And when they do "GOD HELP US!"

                            We know that many leaders appeared on the planet to be a tool for punishment (I am not sure what else to call it...) Some countries have floods, tsunamis, earthquakes, Karaoke... and others, war. Nothing happens without reason.

                            That doesn't mean those witnessing the act should idly sit and do nothing, however. Once again, in America, all those who oppose certain policies of the Bush Administration are doing all they can. It is not their fault they are not able to alter history nor can they commit illegal acts in the name of what they think is right, and that brings us to a little discussion about Doctor Dahesh:

                            One time the Doctor called my brother (I won't say who) and I. We were in NYC. He asked him to wait for him as he had a matter to discuss with him. The Doctor also told him not to leave the apartment.

                            And so my brother waits...and waits...then My brother was becoming impatient.
                            My brother then got up and said "I am going out"

                            I said "you can't do that, the Doctor was very specific, he said to wait"

                            My brother didn't listen. He left.

                            I am not going to describe to you how worried, sad, and upset I was.

                            A little later, I hear the doorman buzz the intercom. The Doctor is downstairs.

                            I go down and walk up to the car and (sadly) inform him that my brother left.

                            The Doctor asked me "did you tell him to wait?"

                            I said "yes I did" and he left.

                            The Doctor never said to me "but why didn't you physically stop him?"

                            Now, the "old Mario" might have. In fact, there was one time when the Doctor specifically asked me to move a "mountain" of boxes from one spot, into the other.

                            That same brother came and asked me "what are you doing?" to which I answered "The Doctor asked me to move the boxes from this spot to that spot."

                            Well, my brother said "No, we're going to move them to THAT spot."

                            I said "No, we're not, we're going to do exactly what the Doctor asked."

                            Well, you can imagine the "war" that took place.

                            The Doctor had to rush back to the building to the building.

                            "What is the matter?!" the Doctor inquired. My brother (I will never forget it) standing on the pile of boxes, not letting me move them (and by the way, there was a "crowd") yelled "I want HIM out of here. He doesn't do what I want HIM to do! He is insolent and does not respect his elders!..." etc. etc. etc.

                            I began protesting!

                            "But Doctor, he has no right to prevent me from doing what YOU asked me to do!!!" etc. etc.

                            Here is what the Doctor did. He allowed my brother to "win".

                            Then, he grabbed my hand (and I was still "ranting" ... but quietly... after all... he IS Dahesh) and he said "come with me, let's go..." And he literally dragged me (holding my hand all the time) to the main house, which was (maybe) a 100 yards away... I don't remember... all I remember is that it was long enough walk, and was holding my hand... and I was still angry... but he was smiling.

                            He brought me inside the Kitchen and said "Sit, sit, let's eat..."

                            From that time, I leaned that as long as I have the courage to voice my opinion, I've done my duty.

                            Hussein Wrote: Bush itself said that, he said he is inspired and he has prophecy, and if Israel the country didn't raise up, Jesus will not be shown again. Do you believe in that? and you know Jesus already came.

                            Can you please quote me the source?

                            But let's assume that's what he said and that (again, I am going with an assumption) he is ready to do everything in his power to make sure Israel rises, because HE wants Jesus to return...

                            Well, that would be obviously very bad news for all those who oppose Israel. Whether it is right or wrong is not the issue.

                            What matters is the following: What is the true and hidden reason (which God only holds the key to) that the leader of the most powerful country in the word would do that? Assuming it is the worst thing that can ever happen at a global level, might it be something the planet and its inhabitants merit because of its collective "spiritual sayyals"? Don't get me wrong, I am not cheering! And I would do whatever I can legally to stop it. But if I can't... I'll have to accept it... Just like I would accept a meteorite hitting the Earth.

                            Hussein Wrote: And what is the comparment between Sodom and Amora.
                            it was another planet bombardment them, not another peoples in the name of democracy and human rights!

                            Okay... the comparison... first, let's expand on this subject for those in the audience who are unfamiliar with the history:

                            In Daheshism, we believe that Sodom and G'morrah were indeed destroyed (as the Old Testament says) but by an alien civilization.

                            Now, my reply: The method via which (God's) justice is carried out can take many forms. I know it is hard to accept. That is why I keep mentioning my war experiences—so that those who might have a tendency to be angry towards me see that I saying all that without malice. I repeat, the method can vary.

                            In ancient times, and perhaps because humanity didn't have the Atomic weapon, Sodom and G'morrah were destroyed by Aliens.

                            In 1945 Harry S. Truman orders 2 Atomic bombs to be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

                            One might argue that if there indeed was a God, he wouldn't allow the massacre of all these people. But, if one believes in reincarnation, then one can accept perhaps the notion that all the Sayyals from Sodom and G'morrah had "fallen" so low, that after they had to reincarnate as Japanese citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and suffer the horrible fate... Otherwise, indeed, there would not be any justice.

                            Hussein Wrote: And do you think the world wide people forgave Hitler for what he did? even as your belief, it was the instrument of God.

                            Again, I wish I am quoted in context and correctly...

                            Well, I never mentioned Hitler specifically. But since we are on that subject, let me first explain to the American audience that when I was growing up in Lebanon, we never heard about the Holocaust. Sure, there might have been a mention here and there... But when we studied WWII history, that aspect was never discussed.
                            And, before I continue, I need to mention that my many in my family (on my mother's side) died in the Armenian Genocide and that, till today, the Turkish government will not admit nor apologize for it. Also, I need to mention that my Grand Father, an Assyrian, was a Turk who married an Armenian and that he was very wealthy. He would lose all his fortune in fight against the Turks. My point being: Although I am "cold and detached" on the outside, I have my own "issues" and I totally relate with the Jews whose family members were affected by the Holocaust.

                            Now I will answer: Since nothing happen without reason, and since I believe that occurs is the result of some action that we did in this or former lives, I can't see why I wouldn't believe that Hitler was the world's punishment.
                            So was Napoleon... But back to Hitler, in the "Memoirs of the Dinar" the "Dinar" (Gold piece of money) says after he witnessed a meeting with Hitler (before the war) that he would either be the best thing OR the worst thing for Germany... Of course, we all know that Hitler fell into the Dark side, and let blind ambition and hate control him

                            It's one thing fighting a war. But, to exterminate millions of people can only be categorized as Evil.
                            But, once again, why does Evil exist?

                            The answer is: our actions.

                            And once again, should we do everything in our power to stop it (without breaking the law): Yes.
                            (By "breaking the law" I mean: bomb a village filled with civilians—for example).

                            And, for the record, the Doctor in Innocent in Chains, evoked the Nuremberg Trials, reminding those who committed crimes against him and the Daheshists of what awaits them.

                            In closing, I wish to point out that I've raised several times (somewhere else) the notion that we are living in a universe where fate and free will (which are mutually exclusive) seem to live in harmony. And, once again, anyone diving more and more into the nunances in Daheshism will soon begin to tear his or her hair out because things begin to stop making sense... That is the rite of passage every Daheshist must undertake, before reaching "the other side" where, hopefully, "everything makes sense" (but that doesn't mean we would be able to explain it...)


                            Last edited by Mario; 07-24-2006, 09:09 PM.
                            "Fail, to succeed."


                            • #15
                              Hussein Wrote: By the way, i would like to tell you something here, i'm not defending any one, and i'm not belong to any one, and i never support any one of the Fanatic people, who ever they are. Even i never Buy their newspaper, because in my mind the money will go to buy a bullet to shoot some one some where, and may be they will shoot us some day.
                              Just i'm trying to explain my view point for the crisis in any place in the world. And when i said i'll stop talking about the politic, i mean that. because really, again ( i hate the politic and the politicians). And i know , there is no way for any one to get the truth.

                              Dear Hussein,

                              I assure you I know. That is why I made sure I intercepted each one of your posts and retorted. In a way, I was rephrasing what you were saying. That way, no one thinks you are anything but a peace loving man.

                              Again, your first message in the Temple, followed by your message thread in the debate center (all of which prompted me to offer a balanced view) and then your declaration which (we now know) came from a deep sense of outrage (all valid) needed to be tempered—for your own sake. If you notice, I only mention Israel and America (for example). I know how sensitive the situtation is "over there" and I don't want to be reckless. On the other hand, you have to understand that the American government is at war with certain factions (again, to remain nameless) and things are a little "sensitive" here, in America as well. Bottom line, we need to make sure this web site is not mistaken for anything other than what it is... A site where Daheshists connect and where non Daheshists can learn. And here, once again, I wish more Daheshists would join us.

                              The problem is your home has been blown up and your family scattered.
                              Also (I hope not...) you might have lost everything...

                              Believe me when I tell you I know what that feels like. True it happened to me years ago. But it took me years to recover, at least emotionally and psychologically. I still shake when I hear thunder.

                              If I didn't care, I wouldn't have "nitpicked" each of your messages and spent hours coming up with (what I was hoping were) intelligent answers.

                              But the problem is that each time, you thought I was trying to outsmart you. Whereas, I was trying to (believe it or not) protect you. Of course, maybe that was presumptuous of me. But my conscience wouldn't have let me off the hook.

                              Add to that the fact that (off the record) my heart is bleeding from sadness... But as a moderator in Daheshville, and just like any journalist, I have to remain (on the outside) "objective." Don't you think I want to scream? When I see the mass graves on TV... the burnt bodies of children...

                              Now, after all this, if you tell me "I don't need your help" then I will stop saying anything. The only thing I would then ask is that you would stop quoting me out of context or in an incomplete manner.

                              As for politics... I know. I feel the same way. I am hoping we can shift to a Daheshist perspective. Then again, one might argue that Daheshism cannot live in a vaccuum... On the other hand, someone HAS to do it.

                              It's like having to shave every morning... I don't like it... but I have to do it. All I have to do next time is make sure I don't reincarnate on Planet Earth... Well, easier said than done...

                              All in all, I am proud of the fact we (Sandrine and David included), got involved and said something... anything.



                              Last edited by Mario; 07-24-2006, 01:41 AM.
                              "Fail, to succeed."