Real Daheshville

[Sonic]

Hi all,
I was wondering if Dr Dahesh spoke about a real city for daheshists , dahesville and if he wrote something describing it .

Thanks

[Mario]

Fact-Based Response: All I've heard from the Doctor's mouth is the comment in which he said "Maybe Reagan will give us a piece of land so that we may build a city upon" which made me think "sure he will" ... I thought that because, well, it was totally unrealistic to me and he sometimes (if not often) tested me. And, if you remember, that was the night the miracle of the loaves of bread and cheese happened. Anyway, as I was leaving the bedroom on my way to the kitchen (and him working at this desk, not even turning my way) he declared in a voice that was calm but carried the power of 1000 volts: "Do you know, sir, we're going to have a temple?" (Inta 3aaref ya istaz inno rah i-seer 3indana ma'bad?")


Educated Guess: I've heard the term "Daheshville" from someone. I've also heard another person speak of specifications for a temple. When, how, where... who knows... My theory is this: If we can build an online community of kindred spirits, in the name of Dahesh, then the rest will follow. Besides, didn't the apostle John spend a lot of time communicating via letters?

If we are all made of energy, and if information is in the final analysis energy (as per Norbert Weiner, the father of cybernetics) and since "information equals life" why can't an actual community thrive emotionally as well as spiritually in the information dimension?

[samer el haddad]

Very interesting theory,for we all know that the term church(the christian temple)means the gathering of believers which doesn't imply any building or even suggest.From small experience i have had till now in daheshville,i've seen the greatness of this act.Finding explanations and clarifications posted by daheshists and questionning from interested spiritual seekers seems to me an act of communication that constitutes a temple.Of course,what the doctor said to you Mario might hold in its fold lot of explanations and of course a specific vision,but who are we to speculate.HE who knows more than all and what was said shall be done.The fact that i found the letters posted by Dr.Brax and N.Brax as you yourself clarified Mario has given me an exceptional feeling to know what i knew especially concerning the immaculate conception.I believe myself to be a follower to Dr Dahesh Message and yet this is the first time i know that truth which openned fields of thinking.
I have reread recently the conference of Dr Brax in AUB about THE PRODOGIES OF DR DAHESH AND THE UNITY OF RELIGIONS.In the explanation of the misunderstanding between islam and christianity concerning the Christ crucifixion,it was clearly stated that the multi-personalities of the prophet is the explanation.Yet,Christ's students declared the resurrection after three days.If we compare the act of execution of DR DAHESH's personality and his miraculous presence in Beirut at the same time and the act of crucifixion,this implies that jesus lived as his earthly character after the act of cricifixion(And might have "MARRIED"(it was shocking to me too the article"what she said")).Could this matter be clarified if allowed?
Thank you all founders of DAHESHVILLE for this important communication platform.

Regards.

SAMER HADDAD

Fact-Based Response: All I've heard from the Doctor's mouth is the comment in which he said "Maybe Reagan will give us a piece of land so that we may build a city upon" which made me think "sure he will" ... I thought that because, well, it was totally unrealistic to me and he sometimes (if not often) tested me. And, if you remember, that was the night the miracle of the loaves of bread and cheese happened. Anyway, as I was leaving the bedroom on my way to the kitchen (and him working at this desk, not even turning my way) he declared in a voice that was calm but carried the power of 1000 volts: "Do you know, sir, we're going to have a temple?" (Inta 3aaref ya istaz inno rah i-seer 3indana ma'bad?")


Educated Guess: I've heard the term "Daheshville" from someone. I've also heard another person speak of specifications for a temple. When, how, where... who knows... My theory is this: If we can build an online community of kindred spirits, in the name of Dahesh, then the rest will follow. Besides, didn't the apostle John spend a lot of time communicating via letters?

If we are all made of energy, and if information is in the final analysis energy (as per Norbert Weiner, the father of cybernetics) and since "information equals life" why can't an actual community thrive emotionally as well as spiritually in the information dimension?

[Mario]

Very interesting theory,for we all know that the term church(the christian temple)means the gathering of believers which doesn't imply any building or even suggest.From small experience i have had till now in daheshville,i've seen the greatness of this act.Finding explanations and clarifications posted by daheshists and questionning from interested spiritual seekers seems to me an act of communication that constitutes a temple.Of course,what the doctor said to you Mario might hold in its fold lot of explanations and of course a specific vision,but who are we to speculate.HE who knows more than all and what was said shall be done.The fact that i found the letters posted by Dr.Brax and N.Brax as you yourself clarified Mario has given me an exceptional feeling to know what i knew especially concerning the immaculate conception.I believe myself to be a follower to Dr Dahesh Message and yet this is the first time i know that truth which openned fields of thinking.
I have reread recently the conference of Dr Brax in AUB about THE PRODOGIES OF DR DAHESH AND THE UNITY OF RELIGIONS.In the explanation of the misunderstanding between islam and christianity concerning the Christ crucifixion,it was clearly stated that the multi-personalities of the prophet is the explanation.Yet,Christ's students declared the resurrection after three days.If we compare the act of execution of DR DAHESH's personality and his miraculous presence in Beirut at the same time and the act of crucifixion,this implies that jesus lived as his earthly character after the act of cricifixion(And might have "MARRIED"(it was shocking to me too the article"what she said")).Could this matter be clarified if allowed?
Thank you all founders of DAHESHVILLE for this important communication platform.

Regards.

SAMER HADDAD

Samer, I know I speak on behalf of all "the founders" by saying that I cannot thank you enough for having given Daheshville such a WONDERFUL show of support!

Also, please keep in mind that each person (Daheshist or otherwise) who enters Daheshville with a geniune desire to participate (even if that means challenging what is being said) and shows enough courage to add his or her voice is, in my opinion, a "founder." After all, what are cities without its people? My father had a saying he often repeated in his Aleppo accent "Janneh bidoon naas, maa b'tin daas" (Paradise without other inhabitants is not in the least appealing" Even the Doctor himself needed people around him... I think, over time, as the "Citizenship" number increases, we will incorporate... I see a board of directors, elections, etc. It is only a matter of time. We're still in the "primordial soup" stage.

I need to mention a word about THE PRODOGIES OF DR DAHESH AND THE UNITY OF RELIGIONS. Ghazi Brax's contribution to the understanding of Daheshism is very important and needs to be recognized.

However, we need to also put things into perspective: that body of work is limited in the sense that it uses Newtonian Physics as the backdrop.

I am not saying that by introducing different branches of physics we would "resolve" the equation. However, using the later branches of physics as the backdrop while discussing Daheshism, will ultimately show that in the end we can't prove anything and that it is a matter of belief...

And here, we venture into the area of the "MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE" (which I think is at the heart of Daheshism. I would like to invite all young Daheshists to read my remarks that I posted in this thread) where we transcend the outer shell of our faith/religion.

Beyond giving someone literature and pointing them to certain sources of information and calling it a day, a Daheshist who dreams of "teaching" Daheshism to someone (perhaps a friend) who comes knocking on his or her door and willingly participates in the ancient and honorable tradition of "teacher and student," should have a tough skin and be ready for rejection.

This IS a journey... a long journey of knowledge and discovery... for both the "student" as well as the "teacher."

That being said, and for those Daheshists who are unsure about whether or not to become a "founder" as well: where else can you learn to become an effective teacher? Daheshville (and, once again, I will thank Samer) is a very effective practice ground... If can make it "here" you can make it "anywhere."

(it was shocking to me too the article"what she said")).Could this matter be clarified if allowed?

Here are a couple of additional pieces of information I've heard over the years:

There IS supposedly a "JESUS of NATHARETH" (or as some have indicated "Jesus the Natharene") PART TWO!

However, legend has it that it became cloaked... In other words, the manuscript went out of phase with our reality, so it's there, but we can't see it (by the way, I've talked about that in some other post... Next time you look for something and it's right there before you... yep... believe it of not, it was MADE to be CLOAKED for reasons only the "spirit" knows... Perhaps so that you are delayed and not suffer injury...or the opposite! ... One never knows... that is why we must always pray!).

According to what I have been told by very reliable sources: the Daheshists (and I mean ALL of us) did not merit to see it...

There is also, a MOVIE (I believe 16mm) of Jesus that materialized... and I've spoken to the Daugher of the late Mrs. Marie Haddad... She saw it... and would you believe I actually don't remember the description of Jesus that she saw in the movie? That daughter also saw (in a spiritual revelation) Adam and Eve... Wow... Yes, that daughter is still alive... and wouldn't be wonderful if she and others were to grace us with their presence...

Another thing we would learn by reading the Doctor's books is that, for example, several women (still alive today) were his wife and/or "companion" (or lover etc.) in OTHER reincarnations. He might have been (for example) a king or prince in ancient egypt... or a prophet... etc.

I know one Daheshist who was told was his daughter in another dimension.

You get to the point where, truly, you reach "information overload!" and you have to say "time out!"...

And I can't tell you how many people whose past lives were revealed ended up being ... admired (let's leave it at that) by ... "the fans."

And, I can't tell you how many of these "stars" ... fizzeled out in the end—as a constant reminder that we are as good as what we are doing NOW.

Perhaps that is why Jesus said (if I am not mistaken) " the first will be the last and that the last will be the first."

[Johnson]

If we can think beyond the physicality of what it takes to be a 'community' and look more in to the spiritual nature of what 'commnunity' is, I think that Daheshville is the beginning of the evolution of what the new community will become. Who would have thought even 10-15 years ago the way the internet community would become such a real entity...there are online universities, online testing and study programs, online appications for everything, and obviously online portals to visit every virtual street in the world selling/marketing/showcasing everything 24 hours a day. Yes, Daheshville is part of that community, and they of us.

[Johnson]

I know a physical temple will exist one day... in fact I see many... each to suit its own demographic and geographical location. I see that even with these physical structures, the link via the internet and this online community will continue to play a strong if not stronger role in linking us all together as the community and its natural evolution sees fit.

[zionic]

I know a physical temple will exist one day... in fact I see many... each to suit its own demographic and geographical location. I see that even with these physical structures, the link via the internet and this online community will continue to play a strong if not stronger role in linking us all together as the community and its natural evolution sees fit.

This particular matter of Temples and various types of Daheshist communities, including an actual city (or cities!) intrigues me and I'll have to think a bit more about how to express my opinion of these related matters, and then I'll try to post something worthwhile. I don't know if it is an advantage or disadvantage to come at the subject without knowing exactly what Dahesh said about these matters, so I'll be flying a little blind, and I'll be drawing on certain Christian as well as Mormon conceptions that I feel relevant to a more participatory development process for cities and communities.

There are two ways I can go about this. I can post what I would say about Temples and cities in the manner that I do when speaking to a Community of Christ (RLDS) audience or keep things as generic as possible while remaining highly suggestive.

If you indulge me and have me do the former then I think the chances of significant parallels with Daheshist intentions might more clearly emerge and the nature of the questions that arise may be much more interesting. It is probably more honest to type as well, because while I do have profound respect for Dahesh I haven't made that psychic leap that says I am a Daheshist. Hey, I hear it takes 20 years to make a Daheshist!

Whaddaya say? Shall I subject you all to my megalomaniacal agenda for cosmic conquest?

[zionic]

Daheshville, cities and the Church

Brothers and Sisters, Saints and Sinnerz, As promised, I'm chiming in again on the subject of the bricks-and-mortar phase of the Real Daheshville...made real, as others have hinted by Phase I, the spiritual gathering of Daheshville, including our gathering in cyberspace.

Before I dive into the really preachy part of my comments, I noticed that in Noah's Letter that Noah makes reference to the Guiding Prophets becoming rulers in "new lands", with language reminiscent of Paul's talk concerning a "new Heaven and a New Earth"...language that came to Paul ultimately from Noah's father, Enoch. Christians, (and I suppose others as well) often view the rolling-up of the present state of affairs and the rolling-out of the New Cosmos to be an event where humanity is passive...we just kind of watch it happen. No doubt God does the heaviest lifting, but our role is an active one. There will be no peace for us in Heaven until there is peace for us on Earth as it were. If this were not so then we would quickly turn Heaven into Hell. Better to get it right in this time of probation and present a world to the Lord that is ready to join the Celestial order.

Which brings me back to to the Guiding Prophets, our rulers. What kind of rulers will they be? I think a good way to answer this question is to rely on a good solid case study involving one who is very much considered a Ruler, Jesus of Nazareth, otherwise known among Christians as King Jesus (that's what Jesus Christ means, among other things that the word Christ implies). Perhaps we can find out what kind of rulers Dahesh, Ali, Noah, Adam and Enoch might be by seeing what is said about Jesus' Church.

Most of you probably know King Jesus challenged the "powers-that-be", Pharisees, Caiaphas, Herod, the Romans, you name it. As if it wasn't a bad enough offense to the powerful in additon to performing mighty miracles He proposed, nay, He proclaimed, the release of slaves, redistribution of landholdings and the cancelation of usurious debt. He proclaimed this as if He had authority. His proclamation had enough political overtones to attract the wrath of political, economic and religious elites. The immediate reaction to this proclamation was to attempt to stone Him and throw Him down a hillside. Later on the actions of the Jewish elite,, the Pharisees and the Romans would take similar shape, they would see Him hang on a cross from a hillside, and for the very same reasons.

Paul reflects upon the action taken by the powerful against King Jesus and tells us that it was on the cross that King Jesus defeated those who crucified Him. Paul talks a lot about the "thrones, principalities and powers" and He weaves the mission of King Jesus and the Church around it. The Powers were created by Jesus and they "systematize" through King Jesus (Collosians 1:15-17). They are part of the good creation of God and meant to bring order to our lives. But they are fallen and often oppress us. In Collosians 2 King Jesus defeats the Powers, both cosmic and earthly social, economic and political interests that crucified Him.

Ephesians 3:9-11 introduces the Powers to us again, this time in the context of the purpose of the Church/Ecclesia, which Paul says to demonstrate the wisdom of God on the basis of the fellowship/koinonia of the Church. Thus we find that one purpose of the Church is to directly associated with the redemption of the fallen Powers. Paul, being the good Jew that He was is in this passage, and in fact throughout all of Ephasians chapters 2 and 3 expanding upon the Zionic vision in Micah 4, where the nations 'flow to Zion' to 'learn of her ways' and to 'learn war no more.' Presumably this is because Zion and the Church as modeling redemptive power, and the war weary, poverty-filled and racism-ridden world can't help turning to those who have overcome these social, political and economic perversions of the will of God.

Paul's Powers theme also help s us to place some sharper definitions on many of Paul's terms. First of all, the terms "Church", "Fellowship", and "Commonwealth" appear to be drawn from the vocabulary of Greek politics, especially the idealized Greek political notions handed down by such persons as Aristotle. The Greek ideal, not to mention the Israelite ideal, was diametrically opposed to the building of empires, empires like Rome for example. The ideal centered around the organization of a 'polis'. Polis is often translated "city-state", but in its idealized sense was based on the participation of the people in a "church/ecclesia" or the assembly of the city/polis. The work of the church/ecclesia was carried out through fellowship/koinonia and the fellowship/koinonia were organised to carry out ritual festivals, keep the collective memory of some central myth alive and to carry out the policy of the church/ecclesia. In other words, the fellowship of which Paul spoke involves much more than shaking hands and sharing a potluck dinner. It's political. And what kind of politics does the Church have under her King Jesus? Not the kind of politics we know of today, not the politics of empire, bu tof face-to-face participation, the politics of a gathered assembly of citi-zens rather than the Senate, the politics of citi-zenship and common-wealth rather than of "constituency", the politics of fellowship rather than bureaucracy, the politics of covenant rather than the politics of mere tribalism or special interest wars of each against all.

So cities are important. The Commonwealth of Christ is made up of cities. The ancient Church did more than nod at this idea when it formed what was essentially a network of city-based churches each gathered around a Bishop, each Bishop in turn acting as a temple high priest. The task of the Church, organized spatially in such a way is to model the Kingdom of God in the place where power really matters, where it can help human life develop sustainably, the cities.

So it may be relevant to conceptualize "Daheshville" as a signal community that demonstrates redemptive patterns of humane-scaled and highly participatory social, political and economic development. Might be something worth aspiring to. Certainly worth exploring IMNSHO.

[Johnson]

Zionic... I really enjoyed the insights of your post. Cities are complex, evolutionary beasts. Will a "Daheshist" community look the same or different than a small rural town? any other city? More realistically, the community will come together from all the existing diversities that currently make up the fabric of our existing American towns/cities. I could see it realistically as a small (to start with) temple within a park within the fabric of an existing community. I would see the ultimate "core" of Daheshville as a temple (the first structure, as prayer/remembrance is the core)... The other structures in line would be a library (certainly a mausoleum of knowledge, both in terms of housing the Dr.s' collection and works, but also serving as a place of academic and scholarly pursuit), a museum (the structure of preserving the heritage of Daheshism). There could be a beautiful vocabulary of the architecture of these structures. I would see them all in a very park like setting that has a harmony with the beauty of nature and the cosmos.

The greater community of the full scaled city is what goes on right here in cyberspace in Daheshville. Even with physically built structures, the essence and the dialogue and the community that exists here is where I see the true 'global city" of Daheshville growing and taking place. Our collective (like Borg!) intentions and thoughts and prayers are as real as our physical deeds and our actual physical proximities.

[Johnson]

I want to also provide some interesting history of sorts regarding several of the ideas behind Daheshville. Mario can better attest to when the term was first used. As architects and urban planners, Mario and I had many, many notions of the physical design of what such a city as Daheshville would look like. We knew that cities, successful ones anyway, did not generally get designed in the large scale in totality. They evolve and change and adapt for working successfully over time...as populations grow and cultures evolve and advance. The interesting point of this is that these discussions Mario and I had occured some 22 years ago when we were graduate students at MIT. These conversations took place in a world that didn't have an internet and personal computers where not even the norm. We discussed Daheshville not so much as a physical city (we knew however there would one day be temples) but rather came to the conclusion it would be more of a "virtual city". Lo and behold, along comes the computerized world and the internet. And here we are... Daheshville exists! And it is indeed a virtual city and its citizens are here and we share ideas and we live as neighbors... (except for the part about borrowing tools and gardening equipment!).

[zionic]

I want to also provide some interesting history of sorts regarding several of the ideas behind Daheshville. Mario can better attest to when the term was first used. As architects and urban planners, Mario and I had many, many notions of the physical design of what such a city as Daheshville would look like. We knew that cities, successful ones anyway, did not generally get designed in the large scale in totality. They evolve and change and adapt for working successfully over time...as populations grow and cultures evolve and advance. The interesting point of this is that these discussions Mario and I had occured some 22 years ago when we were graduate students at MIT. These conversations took place in a world that didn't have an internet and personal computers where not even the norm. We discussed Daheshville not so much as a physical city (we knew however there would one day be temples) but rather came to the conclusion it would be more of a "virtual city". Lo and behold, along comes the computerized world and the internet. And here we are... Daheshville exists! And it is indeed a virtual city and its citizens are here and we share ideas and we live as neighbors... (except for the part about borrowing tools and gardening equipment!).

Personally I'm a big fan of Jane Jacobs (may her memory be eternal). Classy gal.

Of course talking about the development of the physical environment of a community is not exactly the same as a discussion of how cities evolve, that I'll grant. I guess I brought up the "theology of cities" as it were to contrast the scope and scale of development contemplated by Christ vs. that of building empires like Rome. My feeling is that a high participatory process of planning and development of the physical and ethical environment that nurtures the human soul would greatly interrupt social, political and economic patterns that centralize power and wealth in the hands of the few. So I'm interested in exploring just how a community could make their development process as participatory as possible....something beyond charettes and the like.

I know it's getting way ahead of where we really are, but let's dream that the Daheshville community had hundreds if not thousands of members, and that not only did it exist in cyberspace, but also increasingly members were meeting up one way or another. And some wing-nut from Georgia wonders out loud....I wonder if we could plan a community together? A village perhaps? So people get together and decide "we're going to build a village." Obviously there would be a need to fully understand the values behind such an effort, and beyond that practical considerations will have to be made.

So a chain of logic develops to help everybody see clearly what needs to be done. "We're going to build a village" results in corollary objectives, like

"We're going to build the businesses that build the village infrastructure and that provide products, services and employment for village citizens."

"We're going to govern and organize the village both as a community and as a project. "

"We're going to design and develop the village, together."

"We're going to promote the purpose, principles and concepts of the village."

Expanding on the corollaries, in reverse order:

We're going to design and develop the village together. A non-profit organization called bada bing ramadama dingdong (New York, London, Kuala Lampur, Singapore) and the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation promote the purpose, principles and concepts that are the foundation of the Daheshville Community Village. The Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation is....(pretty much verbatim Dee Hock describing a "chaordic organization")..a non-stock, for-profit corporation held in the form of nontransferable rights of participation by its members in order that it might be equitably held by all its participants, with rewards stemming from initiative and the exercise of ability, and that the power and functions of the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation might be decentralized to the highest degree possible, that no individual person or entity might dominate its deliberations, control decisions or otherwise unduly encumber its process and structures. Because of this equitable sharing of governance, power and function, we are blessed with the diversity and strength of our fellow participating members, enabling these participants in the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation to build their capacities together and generate a constant stream of innovative social, economic, creative and spiritual growth.

We're going to design and develop the Village. As the Daheshville Community Village Project is promoted and shared with persons in introductory meetings, seminars, workshops and other appropriate settings, participants are drawn actively into the design and development process and thus meet the primary qualification for membership in the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation with its attending rights of participation in the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation's governance, deliberation, decision-making and development. The subject of deliberation and decision-making includes design and development of the Daheshville Community Village. In essense, the future inhabitants of the physical village will design and develop that very village.

We're going to organize and govern the village both as a community and as a project. Participative design and development of the Daheshville Community Village implies that the Daheshville Community Village Project is a process that is a product and a product that is a process, or to use another useful metaphor, "we build the road as we travel." This involves conceiving of the Daheshvillle Community Village Porject as an exercise in both community organizing and project management, and therefore requires staff, governing bodies and other participants who have community organizing and project management-related competencies. Because the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation's participants are themselves the direct "end-users" of the Daheshville Community Village, it is best to characterize the process members are participating in as an exercise in which the center of community organizing with respect to the Daheshville Community Village Project is project management, and the center of project management with respect to the Daheshville Community Village Project is community organizing.

We're going to build the businesses that build the village infrastructure and that provide products, services and employment for village citizens. In the course of design, development and organization of the Daheshville Community Village, relationships will be built between and among diverse participating members with their many strengths, competencies, needs and wants, making economic development and growth possible among the Daheshville Commowealth Corporation's participants. To harness the energy these relationships will generate, a cooperative association will be organized and made up of businesses and service provider organizations that have obtained a charter from the Daheshville Commonwealth Corporation and that have bound themselves together as a federation with a contract of association setting the terms of their qualification, cooperation, governance, capital structures, social responsibilities etc.

Worth expanding upon?

[Johnson]

Great post Zionic... I will respond in greater detail later when I have time. I just wanted to interject some thoughts and questions that I wanted to pose. I would have to ask, is the community of Daheshville composed entirely of Daheshists? Is this model like the Quaker communities in Pennsylvania? I think the reality (here in 2007 anyway) is that while there ultimately will be concentrations of Daheshists within existing communities, will entire regions become Daheshists? Yes, in time. Does the fabric of commerce, schools and governments change as they become more Daheshist based? I guess yes... and no. The model we have here in America of Democracy is the model that would allow the belief to exist and grow and for Daheshists to practice their faith openly and safely... in harmony with other faiths. I think that the culture of change, while not physical, will (in a PERFECT world) come about metaphysically... as in an elevated social conscience. We and others, as we strive (struggle) to be the best people we can be, develop humility, patience, empathy... and caring and tending to our spirituality as well as our neighbors. I love to imagine "Daheshville" as the safest place on earth. A place that becomes a model on many, many levels on what can truly work and thrive... and be all that can be good in the world.

[Johnson]

Alas, however, there ARE people involved... and there is the fly in the ointment! Everything in our lives and other people's lives is evolving. We interact with each other on many levels; casually, intimately, socially, businesswise...as friends, as family... All of these interactions are meritted and connected to the collective of past experiences and the intentions and thoughts of what we hope to become... good desires as well as more base desires. These "tests" if you will, of interactions bring in to play all the spiritual fluids of our strengths, our weaknesses... as well as those of every one else we deal with. When you toss all these variables together in the cauldren, you get... well, LIFE! History has shown us the conflictions of men and women of great aspirations and unlimitied potentials for greatness...and we have also witnessed the frailities of their weaknesses.

Daheshville as a community, in many of the powerful ways you have expressed, will exist because of the honest desire of the individual. The individual that prescribes to the code of decency, of humility, of the faith in God and the miraculous teachers sent our way; of the belief and recognition and the honor of the beauty of this system we call life; of the sheer awe of this life we have and the life of others. We honor free and open discussion and learning... and growing; both for ourselves but also of others. Two individuals come together, then four, then eight... then hundreds, then thousands. A community would have balance... balance on many levels. i believe that a spiritual balance such as this would lead to an economic balance, a political balance...locally as well as globally. But here is where the mind of today can nary decipher or carry the thought of such a utopia. As I try to wrap my mind around these ideas at a larger scale than the people I know around me (and WE can't always get along!) I my mind goes numb. It jumps from the real, the attainable and the realistic, to the flight of fancy and pipe dream.

[Johnson]

Everyone comes to the table of belief with their own individual level of baggage. Everyone has the battles of their id and their ego; their good spiritual fluids and their not so good ones. Sometimes we are successful in managing ourselves, sometimes we are not. The 10 commandments were kind of just the broad strokes to map out a spiriual based life. It was to get people to think of themselves within the relationship to their communities and within themselves and their spirituality. By today's "civilized" standards, they seem pretty elemental and very much like a beta version. Yet it took thousands of years for a country to finally adopt in to the very core of its governmental doctrine that "we hold these truths to be self evident..."

[Loup Solitaire]

Zionic:

I currently live in a planned community and I am a strong believer in them. There are many economies and benefits in a shared community. I especially like the fact that I have so much in common with my neighbors. But at this stage, we are still trying to use some of the very same concepts you are discussing to build a community of believers. We still have many benefits to be gained by finding ways to share and pull people together spiritually. Maybe in the foreseeable future, there will be a gathering, either electronically, or actually where people can exchange ideas.

By the way, I pulled out my Bible and dusted it off. I read some of the passages by Paul in our last communication as you suggested. It was incredibly inspiring.

Did you have a chance to check out the author John Hagee?