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Doctor Dahesh on Miracles, the Spirit, and Spiritual Fluids

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  • Doctor Dahesh on Miracles, the Spirit, and Spiritual Fluids

    In Lightning and Thunder, issue #2, Year #1, April 23 1968, in the section called "Concerning Daheshism : You ask and Doctor Dahesh Responds."

    Ameen Kfoury asks Doctor Dahesh the following question:

    "Daheshists attribute the Miracles that you perform to a Spiritual Force that takes over you from time to time. Miracles mean, therefore, a Spiritual Force influencing [solid] matter. How can one, logically, explain the influence of one thing [The spirit] over something else that differs in its make up [in this case, solid matter]? Furthermore, how can the Spirit take over you as long as a Spirit is [already] in the body of ever person?"


    Doctor Dahesh responds (below is a faithful, albeit quick translation with some notes added. I am pretty sure I covered all the major elements. Time is of the essence... ):

    Past researchers were unable to hit their target when they divided the forces that are broadcast throughout the universe into " the physical" and "the spiritual," and by assigning to matter such a final existence that is independent of that of the spirit, they put us in front of two opposites that contradict each other, with the implication that any interaction between them would be impossible.

    Therefore, this dualism gives matter a fundamental nature that differs from that of the spirit.

    And in the interest of reconciling both opposites, within Man, they resorted to made-up and arbitrary explanations that were weak in their logic.

    The result was the opposite of what these researchers were hoping for, as their explanations gave rise to the modern material philosophies that renounce the existence of the spirit and claim that there is only one kind of existence in the universe and that is: material existence.

    And the truth of the matter is that what we call "matter" — may it be a rock, or a plant, or an animal, or a person, or anything else, is nothing but the tangible/perceptible appearance that is captured by our senses — whether directly or with the help of instruments.

    And this tangible/perceptible appearance has [really] no absolute final/ultimate material existence — even at the level of the atoms, because it is relativistic [in nature] and it changes relative to the senses that capture it.

    Take, for example, this piece of rock whose volume is on cubic meter.

    The size of that rock, its shape, its density and its temperature, all that is determined by the frame of reference that consists of your senses of sight and touch...

    But imagine if your eyes have lenses that can see the same an object at a million times more in magnification ... imagine you are an inhabitant of another planet looking at this piece of rock... in this case, the rock would lose its familiar aspects (those to whom humans are accustomed) ... and not only from the point of view of its size, but also from it external aspect... then and there, the rock will appear to be a gigantic and transparent could. And everything that surrounds it will appear to be vapors or clouds.

    And this way, you can begin to imagine how strange things will appear if your senses were to exchange their devices.

    And the relativistic aspect of the physical condition was confirmed by the modern scientists, starting with Einstein; however, Daheshism knew about this via spiritual knowledge prior to that, in addition to knowing other truths that science has not yet discovered.

    And the gist of the story is that whatever us called "matter" is nothing but an temporary and relativistic material existence whose physical appearance hides an energy of a non-tangible form and which — fundamentally — makes up everything in existence.

    And the only aspect of that energy that was detected by modern science consists in the Electromagnetic fields of which the universe of its entirety is made.

    However, these energies by themselves are nothing but the effective energies that the Daheshists refer to as the spiritual "fluids" that are broadcast throughout the physical universe in its entirety.

    And at the level of these Fluids, the nature [or characteristics] of the spiritual forces unites and this is what exists in the regions lying beyond the "material" worlds and the characteristics of the "material" forces.

    What remains between them is the difference between the one that is loftier or lower, the strongest and the weakest in power and effectiveness.

    And this way the issue [of how one can, logically, explain the influence of The spirit over Matter] is no longer surprising because when a particular Miracle takes place, a non-physical force acts upon another non-physical force — except that the non-physical force that is being acted upon has taken a physical form from Man's perspective. [In other words, the object that may have been transformed via a Miracle, MIGHT have the ILLUSION of being PHYSICAL. The fact of the matter is that this illusion is temporary].

    As for the Spirit, it is a great conscious and effective energy that is not tainted by any "material" condensation [so, here, we get the notion that something that has a physical appearance is, in fact, a condensation of something else, in this case, I am guessing: spiritual fluids] And as such, the Spirit exists only in its world, behind all the physical orbs combined...

    Therefore, Man is not inhabited by a Spirit in the strict sense of the word.

    Rather, his body is made of Spiritual Fluids, or condensed radiating force whose condensed appearance is what we refer to as "Matter."

    And these Fluids, by virtue of their Spiritual core and condensed "Material" appearance is the reason behind the "material mentality" in Man.

    In addition to that, Spiritual Fluids are not exclusive to Man, but they constitute all existing things.

    And whatever unifying aspects that science has discovered to exist between Man, the animal, the plant, and the Inanimate, are but the result of the existence of these Fluids in all of the universe's manifestations combined.

    [Then Doctor Dahesh explains that if the Spiritual explanation that Daheshism provides is able to win people minds, then all the current understanding. along with its frames of reference, and measurements... etc., will be turned on its head. In Doctor Dahesh's mind, there is no doubt that Science and Daheshist understanding are compatible.]
    Last edited by Daheshville; 11-04-2019, 08:04 AM. Reason: Typographical errors.
    "Fail, to succeed."

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mario View Post
    In Lightning and Thunder, issue #2, Year #1, April 23 1968, in the section called "Concerning Daheshism : You ask and Doctor Dahesh Responds."

    Ameen Kfoury asks Doctor Dahesh the following question:

    "Daheshists attribute the Miracles that you perform to a Spiritual Force that takes over you from time to time. Miracles mean, therefore, a Spiritual Force influencing [solid] matter. How can one, logically, explain the influence of one thing [The spirit] over something else that differs in its make up [in this case, solid matter]? Furthermore, how can the Spirit take you over as long as a Spirit is [already] in the body of ever person?"


    Doctor Dahesh responds (below is a faithful, albeit quick translation with some notes added. I am pretty sure I covered all the major elements. Time is of the essence... ):

    Past researchers were unable to hit their target when they divided the forces that are dispatched throughout the universe into " the physical" and "the spiritual," and by assigning to matter such a final existence that is independent of that of the spirit, they put us before two opposites whose reconciliation is an impossibility.

    Therefore, this dualistic theory gives matter a fundamental nature that differs from that of the spirit.

    And in the interest of reconciling both opposites, within Man, they resorted to made-up and corrupted explanations that were weak in their logic.

    The result was the opposite of what these researchers were hoping for, as their explanations gave rise to the modern material philosophies that renounce the existence of the spirit and claim that there is only one kind of existence in the universe and that is: physical existence.

    And the truth of the matter is that what we call "matter" — may it be a rock, or a plant, or an animal, or a person, or anything else, is nothing but the tangible/perceptible appearance that is captured by our senses — whether directly or with the help of instruments.

    And this tangible/perceptible appearance has [really] no absolute final/ultimate material existence — even at the level of the atoms, because it is relativistic [in nature] and it changes relative to the senses that capture it.

    Take, for example, this piece of rock whose volume is on cubic meter.

    The size of that rock, its shape, its density and its temperature, all that is determined by the frame of reference that consists of your senses of sight and touch...

    But imagine if your eyes have lenses that can see the same an object at a million times more in magnification ... imagine you are an inhabitant of another planet looking at this piece of rock... in this case, the rock would lose its familiar aspects (those to whom humans are accustomed) ... and not only from the point of view of its size, but also from it external aspect... then and there, the rock will appear to be a gigantic and transparent could. And everything that surrounds it will appear to be vapors or clouds.

    And this way, you can begin to imagine how strange things will appear if your senses were to exchange their devices.

    And the relativistic aspect of the physical condition was confirmed by the modern scientists, starting with Einstein; however, Daheshism knew about this via spiritual knowledge prior to that, in addition to knowing other truths that science has not yet discovered.

    And the gist of the story is that whatever us called "matter" is nothing but an temporary and relativistic material existence whose physical appearance hides an energy of a non-tangible form and which — fundamentally — makes up everything in existence.

    And the only aspect of that energy that was detected by modern science consists in the Electromagnetic fields of which the universe of its entirety is made.

    However, these energies by themselves are nothing but the effective energies that the Daheshists refer to as the spiritual "fluids" that are broadcast throughout the physical universe in its entirety.

    And at the level of these Fluids, the nature [or characteristics] of the spiritual forces unites and this is what exists in the regions lying beyond the "material" worlds and the characteristics of the "material" forces.

    What remains between them is the difference between the one that is loftier or lower, the strongest and the weakest in power and effectiveness.

    And this way the issue [of how one can, logically, explain the influence of The spirit over Matter] is no longer surprising because when a particular Miracle takes place, a non-physical force acts upon another non-physical force — except that the non-physical force that is being acted upon has taken a physical form from Man's perspective. [In other words, the object that may have been transformed via a Miracle, MIGHT have the ILLUSION of being PHYSICAL. The fact of the matter is that this illusion is temporary].

    As for the Spirit, it is a great conscious and effective energy that is not tainted by any "material" condensation [so, here, we get the notion that something that has a physical appearance is, in fact, a condensation of something else, in this case, I am guessing: spiritual fluids] And as such, the Spirit exists only in its world, behind all the physical orbs combined...

    Therefore, Man is not inhabited by a Spirit in the strict sense of the word.

    Rather, his body is made of Spiritual Fluids, or condensed radiating force whose condensed appearance is what we refer to as "Matter."

    And these Fluids, by virtue of their Spiritual core and condensed "Material" appearance is the reason behind the "material mentality" in Man.

    In addition to that, Spiritual Fluids are not exclusive to Man, but they constitute all existing things.

    And whatever unifying aspects that science has discovered to exist between Man, the animal, the plant, and the Inanimate, are but the result of the existence of these Fluids in all of the universe's manifestations combined.

    [Then Doctor Dahesh explains that if the Spiritual explanation that Daheshism provides is able to win people minds, then all the current understanding. along with its frames of reference, and measurements... etc., will be turned on its head. In Doctor Dahesh's mind, there is no doubt that Science and Daheshist understanding are compatible.]
    I am not certain that what I am about to say is really germane to this post. But since I have been studying the teaching of Dr Dahesh, I have experienced many changes in the course of my life. For me physical miracles are not important. I don't need to see water changed to wine to enhance my faith. But for me the quality of relationships, whether I have a good sense of well being, whether I feel connected to the Universe in which I live, or whether I feel I am having a positive impact on others are the things that are important.

    I feel that too much emphasis on the physical is detrimental to our spiritual development. I respect the need to provide physical proof of the power of the spirit. Certainly if a person doubted the power of God, such an experience would validate His power.

    In the last two weeks, my wife have been celebrating our fortieth wedding anniversary with a cruise and a a tour of the lands in Alaska. It is a beautiful and spiritual place. Wildlife reigns supreme. The earliest immigrants to Alaska were peoples who had crossed from Asia into the North American continent. Although they knew nothing of Christ prior to the arrival of first Russians and then Europeans, they acknowledged the presence of spiritual forces. They were and are beautiful people.

    On this trip was another couple who had married in the same year as my wife and I. I developed a sense of agitation when they consumed too much alcohol and became combative, at times confrontational and arrogant. This was not a situation that had occurred between our friends and my wife and I for the first time. I was distressed because this situation was diminishing the joy of our celebration. My initial reaction was to think that I should react in a confrontational manner, to let them know that they had crossed a line. But I managed to contain this impulse.

    That evening as I readied myself for bed I contemplated the situation that evening. It occurred to me that if I confronted them in a direct manner, I might exacerbate the situation and make us all feel uncomfortable and kill the potential joy of the situation.

    I decided instead to meditate on God and seek his assistance. The next day I was amazed that they reversed their behavior and became the people I remember from years ago. They were jolly, they were friendly. They became fun to be with. Our interaction was delightful. The next night I continued to seek His assistance, and things got even better. They still consumed too much alcohol, but the results were totally different. At a point in the trip, they returned home and my wife and I continued on. I missed our friends immensely.

    Was this a miracle? Did God intervene? I don't know. But I think I will deal differently in the future with situations like this. When conflict, disagreement, and friction occurs between myself and others, I will seek the influence that maybe, only God can effect. Rather than focus on my own disappointment, I'll seek comfort and calming for those I come into conflict with. I'll try to keep this experience in mind. I think this old dog has learned a new trick.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Seul Loup View Post
      I am not certain that what I am about to say is really germane to this post. But since I have been studying the teaching of Dr Dahesh, I have experienced many changes in the course of my life. For me physical miracles are not important. I don't need to see water changed to wine to enhance my faith. But for me the quality of relationships, whether I have a good sense of well being, whether I feel connected to the Universe in which I live, or whether I feel I am having a positive impact on others are the things that are important.

      I feel that too much emphasis on the physical is detrimental to our spiritual development. I respect the need to provide physical proof of the power of the spirit. Certainly if a person doubted the power of God, such an experience would validate His power.
      In John 20:29, we read: "Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

      Based on that alone, I would say that you are correct.

      Let me say this: being that the Miracles (even those we read about in the Bible) can open the door to the acceptance of certain possibilities when viewed through an imaginative lens, then our relationship with them changes.

      A Miracle should not therefore become — in the final analysis — the reason for acquiring faith (and John 20:29 proves that point) but a phenomenon to be appreciated and analyzed on the way to gaining wisdom and insight. In fact, the Doctor's response seems to indicate that Man should have figured *it* out on his own using his knowledge, wisdom, and logic.

      Let's take Darwin.

      Instead of his coming up with a theory that reconciled Creation with what the physical evidence was saying to him, he invented a theory that ultimately refutes the notion that Adam was created.

      Could it be that what he was seeing was the result of several creations and destruction? No.

      Could it have been the result of Extraterrestrial contribution to the gene pools? No.

      Could have been the collision of different dimensions? No.

      And when noted scientists say that the Universe does not need God to create itself, just like gravity does not need the intervention of God to make things fall to the ground, can they answer the following question: Who put the Universe and all its laws we keep hiding behind in order to refute the existence of God?

      The moral of this reply to your wise remarks is the following:

      Yes, while Miracles are certainly not necessary in order to acquire faith, they are nevertheless the glue that holds the Daheshist narrative together.

      And for all we know, some types of "strange enough to be considered miracles" (with a lower case *m*) might be — in fact — messages or signals or "nods" from the "other side": signs of endearment and a promise that someone's looking out for us.
      "Fail, to succeed."

      Comment


      • #4
        As a follow-up response...

        In my experience, the Miracles constitute — aside from everything we've discussed so far — a litmus test of faith.

        Let me explain:

        According to John 20:29, the best case scenario would be to believe without seeing.

        But what about a WITNESS (and there are many that are still alive) who denies the existence of the Miracles?
        "Fail, to succeed."

        Comment

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