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  • Future TV Show on Dahesh

    For those who have lebanese TV, turn on Future TV network. Right now, there is a live talk-show about Dr dahesh, hosting Fares Zaatar and taking phone calls from viewers from across the world.

    The show is called "Sira wa infatahat" and is hosted by Zaven.

  • #2
    Ziyad, I hope you can report back to us to summarize what you have heard and seen.

    Comment


    • #3
      It was an important show because it lasted more than 2 hours and because it is a prime-time popular program hosted by a local TV star, a dude named Zaven, a controversial personality, loved by many and loathed by many others.

      I missed the first 20 minutes and I think they were important, as they presented Dahesh to the new generations of Lebanese who had never heard of him.
      I did not see their initial reportage but it is my understanding that they showed footage from Lebanon in the 1940s and gave both sides of the story (Dahesh as a miracle-accomplishing prophet vs Dahesh as a greedy womanizing magician)

      They then moved to the guest in the studio and that's when I caught the program. The main guest was Attorney Fares Zaatar, who is a prominent daheshist and seemed quite passionate and opinionated. He said that he had recently published a very heavy book about Dr Dahesh and he showed it on the screen but the camera did not dwell on the book and they did not mention its title or the publishing house ( I guess Mario can enquire and give us the book's details so that we can read it).

      Zaatar is about 50 or 55 and he's quite good at making his case and answering rebuttals.

      The show took about ten phone calls from viewers from across the world. A woman called from Canada and said that she knew Dahesh and she called him "the beloved guiding prophet" two or three times on the air. This led another viewer from Kuwait or Saudi Arabia to call the show and complain arguing that the word prophet should not be used lightly.

      Then, they showed footage of the palace where Dahesh lived, the Mneimne palace in Zokak el Blatt. Zaatar was also there with another younger gentleman who answered a few questions about Daheshist rites and said he was looking forward to marry a Daheshist woman.

      The most interesting part was when they interviewed Zeina Haddad who still lives in the old house that her family moved in in 1936. She's about 89 years old but still very alert. She talked about her uncles Bechara el Khoury and Michel Chiha who did not accept Dahesh and fought him. She said Dahesh was "samawi" which can be translated as godsent.

      Zaven asked Fares Zaatar about what new lights Daheshism had shed on Christianity and islam and about how it differed from other religions. He asked about reincarnation.

      Then, Ghazi Brax appeared from New York by videophone. he mentionned his first encounter with Dahesh on July 31, 1963. The video connection to New York was not very good and Brax spoke classical arabic so he was not very effective in his talk and was soon interrupted.

      Without mentioning them, they briefly showed the logo of the Dahesh Society of America and they showed Mario's YouTube Video Tutorials on how to draw the Ramz.

      One guy called from Bekaa and said his brothers and cousins were Daheshists, that it was a cult and that they did not treat him well.

      A woman mentionned a miracle she had witnessed (she saw Dahesh's other personalities)

      Another woman said her father was an advisor to prime minister Hoss and that he used to tell her about dahesh. She said her late father told her that he witnessed Dahesh giving a blank paper to some guy who needed money. The guy gave the blank paper to a merchant and the merchant gave him the goods he wanted and then gave him his change back. Everybody saw it as a blank paper except the seller.

      Another phone call complained that Dahesh used Israel's Star of David as a symbol. Zaatar later corrected him saying it was not the star of david but rather the star present on the moroccan flag.

      The host Zaven said he read in some books that when Dahesh changed papers into moneyn in front of journalists, he would not let them keep the money so as not to be accused of being a counterfeiter. so Zaven said dahesh might be like all magicians who convert blank papers into money and then turn it again into blank papers.

      Some other stories about alleged miracles were told, like a story that says that Dahesh allegedly left his head at the hairdresser and came back to pick it up later. apparently, many people heard this story and Zaatar said it was not a real story, but rather an invented one.

      Zaatar said all of Dahesh's miracles had a meaning and did not occur simply to impress people or to astonish the crowds.

      They did not mention Dahesh's legacy at length. They merely said that wealthy saudis supported Dahesh. The guest seemed to downplay the role of the Zahid family saying they were one among many families who supported Dahesh.

      At the end of the show, Fares Zaatar read a poem emphasizing the unity of religions. He said the show coincided with the death anniversary of prominent Daheshist poet Halim Dammous.

      I wished they had interviewed Mario. Brax was disappointing.

      I'll try and remember other details later on. If you have questions, feel free to ask.

      Here's a link to program's website.

      There is a short intro in english, http://www.zavenonline.info/show-detail.php?sid=126

      an intro in arabic
      http://www.zavenonline.info/show-detail.php?sid=126

      and there are viewers comments

      http://www.zavenonline.info/comments.php?sid=126

      and there is a link to watch the show online but it's not working

      http://www.future.com.lb/videos/scF-5236200057700.asx

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you, Ziyad, for this excellent summary and report. Those of us who have no way of seeing — or understanding Arabic — can now get an idea of what transpired.

        Incidentally, while a "2 hour talk show" in the U.S.A. is unheard of — unless it is an infomercial masquerading as a talk show — it's quite the norm (from what I've seen) in France. And from the looks of it, Zaven's show is stylistically modeled after some of those French talk shows.

        That being said, we're still looking at 2 hours' worth of valuable data and information. And by that, I am also including the comments and questions that the guest(s) heard and/or responded to. These are valuable barometers that tell us how well or how badly Daheshism is perceived. In other words, a person can accept or reject Daheshism — that is their God given right. But are they for or against it based on a clear understanding of what Daheshism entails?

        And beyond that, we have the art of the debate.

        To the person who used the excellent argument that if Daheshism recognizes Islam and the Koran, then Dr. Dahesh cannot be a prophet because Prophet Muhammad said (and I paraphrase) "I am the last of the Prophets" :

        Arguably, and if we were to rely of the Arabic text, Muhammad claimed no such thing because "خاتم" (Khaatim) also means "seal." (as in "corporate, governmental, etc. seal") In other words: "confirmation," "affirmation," "certification,"... in other words, that Muhammad was saying "I am the official stamp of the prophets that came before me, and these prophets were genuine."

        In my view, any Muslim who believes that Muhammad is the *last* of the prophets (in the sense that no prophet can proceed Him) is forgetting about the little affair known as the return of Christ. Of course, how would any Muslim know about such a return unless he or she has read the New Testament?

        So, like it or not, Daheshism is here to remind some Muslims that while Prophet Muhammad is definitely a true Prophet, He should not be mistaken for being the last prophet. Again, many seem to agree with me that Prophet Muhammad quite arguably never said that.

        And like it or not, Daheshism is here to enlighten some Christians (who seem hellbent on rejecting Prophet Muhammad while painting him with the worst sorts of epithets, whilst forgetting about their own "glorious" Christian history that is filled with murder-in-the-name-of-Christ) in the following way:

        Jesus Christ was not God. Rather, he was a great prophet who was sent by, and utlitmately belongs to, THE CHRIST.

        Who is "THE CHRIST?"

        From what we read (and I paraphrase), there is a dimension of existence that happens to be the highest (in terms of its power, purity and frequency) just before we reach the realm of GOD (to which all our Spiritual Fluids ultimately yearn to return ...)

        "THE CHRIST" is the source of God's Prophets (If one chooses to believe that #1: There is a Creator and #2: The Creator, for reasons only known to Him, chooses to give Man free will when it comes to deciding how to live and behave — versus snapping His fingers and making Man bow to his Will. In other words, dispense with all this reincarnation business and the whole process of cleansing one's self and so on and so forth and just assimilate Man into, and make him obedient to, the collective.)

        Jesus was not crucified, as per his request.

        "What request?" some might ask:

        Didn't Jesus ask God that the "Bitter Cup" be lifted from Him?

        Later, the Koran reports that "A copy was made for him." In other words, that He, the real Jesus was not crucified and that, instead, a Spiritual Personality took his place.

        And that is the crux of the matter: Some Christians resent the Koran because it refers to Jesus as merely a prophet, and it claims that he, himself, was never crucified.

        And then came Daheshism: by virtue of the documented execution-by-firing-squad of Dr. Dahesh's *personality* in Azerbaijan while he was alive and well in Beirut, it seeks to UNITE the Christians and Muslims.

        Here, I would like to credit our good friend Ziyad for having once written (and I paraphrase) that Dahesh was probably the only man who united the Lebanese Christians and Muslims — albeit against him.

        And, when I read the comments by both Christians and Muslims (dare I assume, based on their first names) it seems to me that Doctor Dahesh has done it yet again!

        Lastly, and in the interest of full disclosure, I (personally) have had no recent (as in "probably over a decade") contact with any one that appeared on that show, nor do I know about any books they might have published.

        In fact, Ziyad, I would like to — once again — thank you for taking the initiative in breaking this story and later preparing your summary. I was certainly happy to hear that some of our efforts were showcased (logo, videos) even if for a brief moment.
        Last edited by Mario; 09-30-2010, 05:37 PM. Reason: Typos
        "Fail, to succeed."

        Comment


        • #5
          The link is now working and those who missed the program can now watch an excerpt from the first half-hour of the show

          http://www.future.com.lb/videos/scF-5236200057700.asx

          Mario, were you able to watch the whole show ?
          Overall, would you say it was good or bad for daheshism ?

          Personnally, I think it was globally positive, despite some negative comments that were aired.

          Comment


          • #6
            OK, actually, the entire show is now online, at the link i posted, until next week.

            I saw it again online and i would say the best part of the show was the visit to the old zokak el blat house and the interview with Zena Haddad.

            I was struck by the fact that the mansion remains exactly as it was and the impact of the war remains present.

            They still open the downstairs door from the second floor using a cord. I mention this because I remember that in mario's brother's book, he recounted that the first time he went to the house, he was surprised that they open using a cord from above.

            Apparently, 45 years later, the same thing happened to the Future Tv reporter who went there to interview Zeina and Fares Zaatar.

            Also, I got the answer to one question : apparently, the house still belong to the Mneimne family but the Haddad family lives there since they first rented in1936. So I guess they landlords cannot get their house back as long as Zeina Haddad is still alive. But I still worry about what will happen to the house after her death.

            Most old houses in Beirut are being demolished and replaced with large ugly buildings.

            I hope you can save this palace, which is beautiful and part of the national cultural heritage. It should be renovated and turned into a Museum.

            Also, Mario, this Fares Zaatar seems to me to be a reasonable fellow and he said the daheshists are currently not organized. Zaatar seems smarter and more effective than Brax. So Mario, why don't you get in touch with him and try to join forces ?

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Ziyad.

              I did watch it in its entirety and I do feel, indeed, it is ultimately a very good thing for the Daheshists.

              However, and in the interest of the greater good, I do have some comments regarding the methodology adopted by the speakers. I offer them, once again, here (and I just sent this to Zaven as well, not sure if they will post it):

              ---------
              Hello Zaven,

              I would like to start off with a question based on some of the comments I read:

              Isn't the Prophet Muhammad, as per the verse in the Qur'an, the "Khatim an-Nabiyiin", in other words, "The *seal* of the prophets"?

              Of course, a person who is not objective, will translate "Khaatim" to mean "the Last of."
              Whereas if that same person were to dare venture further and check the Arabic Dictionary, they might come to the conclusion that Prophet Muhammad meant the following: "I am the "OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION" of the prophets.

              Besides, and logically, how could Prophet Mohammed say he was the LAST of the Prophets if, as the esteemed fellow Muslims believe, Jesus is to return again? In other words, by allegedly saying "I AM THE LAST OF THE PROPHETS" Prophet Muhammad would have CONTRADICTED the New Testament. Now, I ask all of you devout Muslims who are OBLIGED to believe in the Bible: how is that even possible?

              Now, since the logo of the Daheshist Society of America along with some video clips as well as the music I composed were featured during the show (thank you, by the way, and incidentally, I am half-Armenian myself) in many ways, I feel the Dahesh Society of America were there in spirit.

              As a founding member of that group, I would like to move to the topic of what I consider to be a fundamental flaw in the method that seeks to provide incontestable proof that the spiritual manifestations which occurred at the hands of Doctor Dahesh (which are commonly referred to by the Daheshists as "Miracles") were of a Divine source.

              In other words, this is mainly addressed to my Daheshist brothers and sisters. Then, I will round up my comments with a "big picture" statement. And my apologies in advance to you and your readers if what I am saying is redundant.

              And in order to do so, I must first "prove" that not even science is infallible. So please bear with me, if you will.

              First, and from a scientific point of view, the two main components of "proof" are observation and comparison. In other words, let's say I observe a phenomenon such as an apple falling from a tree and I begin pondering what sort of mathematical expression I can create that—not only describes what I saw—but allows me to make certain predictions about the fate of that apple if, let's say, it was dropped from a 10 story building instead of a tree.

              By successfully doing so, I would have first devised a theory.

              And if I am able to test the theory, over and over (I drop the apple, I observe the results and compare them to the results predicted in my theoretical model — or formula) then that's a good thing, because my theory would then be on its way to becoming a Law of Physics. Of course, that requires the input of my peers who will do everything in their power to disprove my theory:

              As it turns out, any Law of Physics is never perfect in the absolute sense of the word. From experience, we know that there is a great likelihood that any Law of Physics might be proven wrong when never-before seen observations are made.

              And let me give a very brief historical account that shows that even science is constantly under the microscope and that nothing is absolute :

              Meet the modest beam of "light."

              At the time, scientists thought it was a wave that was carried by an invisible substance that permeated the universe and which was known as "aether." So far so good. However, when it came time to set up an experiment to study the "aether," an incredible discovery was made pertaining to the speed of light: as it turned out, regardless of our position and direction of movement, a beam of light always appears to have the same relative speed.

              In other words, and let's imagine we're looking at a speeding car that is heading towards us as 100 Kilometers per hour:

              If we, in turn, we hop in another car and race towards the incoming car at 100 kilometers per hour, then — and according to the sacred Laws of Physics available at the time — the relative speed of the incoming car should be 200 kilometers per hour.

              If on the other hand, we point our car in the exact opposite direction, by the time we reach 100 kilometers per hour, the incoming car should — once again according to the sacred Laws of Physics available at the time — appear stationary.

              But, as it turned out, if we were to replace the incoming car with a beam of light traveling at 300,000 kilometers per second, and regardless of whether we drive towards it or away from it, the beam of light will always appear to be traveling at 300,000 kilometers per second! No more, no less.

              "Voodoo Magic!"

              Today, we know that this was certainly no such thing. However, and for years, that little discovery — courtesy of the little thing known as the Michelson-Morley experiment — meant that at certain speeds, the laws of Newton were useless!

              Imagine the potential ramifications of such a conclusion: basically, it says "nothing makes sense anymore and the world as we know it doesn't even have immutable, eternal laws."

              Even the Church — historically, a classic foe of science — was perturbed. Oh, the irony: finally, Newton had devised laws that did not contradict the Bible. And, then, poof, these laws were on shaky ground.

              Enter Albert Einstein and the intuition he had about the relationship of mass and energy and (lest we forget) the notion that time might not, in fact, be absolute. In other words, and to simplify matters: anytime we accelerate, we distort the fabric of space and time and even though our relative perception of time remains the same, it has most certainly changed for someone who is observing us.

              So, for example, if you are in a space ship traveling near the speed of light, inside the ship everything is normal. Now, say you grab a baseball and throw it at a speed of 190 kilometers per hour (hey, dare to dream, I say) from one end to the ship to the other.

              From your perspective, the ball travelled from your hand to the end of the ship, probably smashed into the "self destruct" button and caused you to hop into the escape pod and eject into space...

              Meanwhile, because nothing can go faster than the speed of light, and as far as someone else who might have been observing you while being on the outside: the ball never even left your hand!

              Now, believe it or not, when Einstein first introduced his Special and then later the General Theory of Relativity, not everyone clapped and cheered. To his critics, these were mere outlandish theories that no experiment could — yet — prove.

              Here's that word again... "prove."

              Well, as it turned out, and later, much later, and when such things as atomic clocks were invented, Einstein's theories were indeed "proven" to be true. I won't go into what occurred when — knock, knock! — the bad boy of Physics, otherwise known as "Quantum Theory" showed up. To put it simply: way down at the quantum level (atoms, electrons, etc.) no Law of Newton's or Einstein's applies. It's a crazy world of probability and chance. Nothing is certain and everything is random. Hence Einstein's remark in critique of the theory: "God does not play dice."

              In any case, today, when we deal with "normal" things like the movement of airplanes, apples, and people, the laws of Newton are perfectly fine (and they are certainly easier to use). However, when it comes to such things as aerospace travel, Einstein's formulae are a must. Otherwise, and for example, the lunar module would have surely missed the moon and the Earth's re-entry window. Actually, having missed the correct interception with the Moon's gravitational pull in the first place, the capsule would have continued into deep space...

              Now, if scientists themselves rejected Einstein's theories on the fundamental ground that it was nothing anyone can prove, what chance does Doctor Dahesh have for anyone to accept (as Doctor Dahesh called it) the "Daheshist Theory of Reincarnation?"

              Better yet, if Einstein himself rejected the predictions of Quantum Physics (which, incidentally, he was responsible for spawning) which then shows that scientists themselves argue and refute each others' "irrefutable proof," what chance does any Daheshist have when borrowing a highly controlled term such as "proof" ?

              I wish some of my esteemed fellow Daheshists would realize that they need to temper the use of the word "proof" with the following disclaimer, which might go something like this:

              "Our Daheshist theory is built upon a premise that some might or might not be willing to accept — namely, the existence of the Creator. And while the Daheshist theory features some concepts found in the field of physics, it is not to be mistaken for, nor to be considered as, being strictly scientific: The fact remains that there is nothing in what we and others have witnessed in terms of 'spiritual manifestations' (or 'Miracles') that can—currently—be reproduced in any laboratory."

              By saying that, a Daheshist is basically asking the following rhetorical question: "Let's first assume that we can, in a laboratory experiment, cause the molecules of dry oil pigment we see in this painting featuring a bird to form a chain of amino acids and cause the instantaneous formation of an actual living bird, who would then fly off the canvas, only to leave a white blank space behind it? Or, how about this: let's assume that we can take these ashes from a document we just burnt, and cause them (in a controlled laboratory environment) to reconstitute to a form predating the burning of the document.

              If we were able to accomplish such feats, how would that — then — change our relationships, our understanding of life and death. Better yet, our understanding of the universe as a whole?"

              I say this to all parties involved because — and this needs to be recognized by the Daheshists themselves — no one refuted the notion that these events took place. Their interpretation of the events might be something that does not flatter the image and memory of Doctor Dahesh, but the fact remains that everyone seems to agree that Dahesh had powers.

              How about we shift the debate to a point to where we invite the world to ponder the implications of such events rather than arguing over semantics?

              Now, we can either go back and forth and debate using syllogism or collaborate and cross that bridge to the point where the Daheshist Experience (as I like to call it) could potentially be beneficial to both the Daheshists as well as the people they are ultimately trying to serve — after all, Doctor Dahesh wrote the following:

              "It is an obscenity that you die before you rise with good deeds toward humanity."

              Best Wishes,

              Mario
              "Fail, to succeed."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ziyad View Post

                Also, Mario, this Fares Zaatar seems to me to be a reasonable fellow and he said the daheshists are currently not organized. Zaatar seems smarter and more effective than Brax. So Mario, why don't you get in touch with him and try to join forces ?
                Based in great part upon what he once said to me when he and I shared an apartment in 1980 for nearly a year, I cannot take such a step. In fact, I am honoring a wish he expressed while we were both standing at the kitchen counter. And I am afraid that is the most I well ever say about the matter.

                God bless him and his endeavors.
                "Fail, to succeed."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Response to the caller named "Bilal"

                  In response to the person who went by the name of "Bilal" and who was complaining that his family included Daheshists, and saying: " I don't like it... they are burning talismans... and they talk about the Fluid they call 'Brother Ali' ... and what's the deal with the Star of David — the symbol of Israel — how we come to this, now, and another thing, if Dahesh was truly able to perform miracles why didn't he heal himself!"

                  Since the question of the alleged Star of David was addressed (and frankly, what does that say about today's educational system!), I will address the second question:

                  Doctor Dahesh, on at least 2 occasions that I personally know of was miraculously healed. The account of the first instance is something we can read in Salim Ombargi/Onbargi/Kumbargi's book "Born again with Doctor Dahesh." It is available somewhere on Daheshville. Basically, the Doctor could have died for sun exposure and his life was miraculously saved.

                  The second one occurred while I was in fact staying at "the cottage" in Greenwich, CT. I didn't actually see the event, because it occurred in the driveway of the main residence — hence, this is hearsay evidence: One of the Daheshists slammed the car door over the Doctor's fingers. The Doctor shrieked from pain and I was told the hand looked in pretty bad shape. However, "Brother Ali" appeared and miraculously healed the hand on the spot. The witnesses to this event were 3 Trustees, the late Raifah Kabbani and the late Dr. Fareed Abusuleiman.

                  That being said, I will respond to Bilal's excellent question: The short answer is that Doctor Dahesh (I suppose once could say) "negotiated" and "traded" his own well-being for the health, life, and safety of others — for all we know, that might have included members of your own family.

                  You see, Bilal, in our Universe, nothing is destroyed nor created (really). Rather, it is transformed. And for ever action there is a reaction. And everything in terms of sins that we commit needs to be purged with something that is one thing that nothing can save us from having to pay.

                  And rest assured that even the "sons will pay for the sins of their parents." Please, don't shoot the messenger, I don't make the rules. But I just want you to mull this over a little bit — just on the outside chance I might be 1% right.
                  Last edited by Daheshville; 10-03-2010, 01:53 PM. Reason: Adding omitted verb for the sake of clarification.
                  "Fail, to succeed."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oops, the dreaded follow-up!

                    That being said, I have witnessed many instances where Doctor Dahesh was temporarily healed.
                    "Fail, to succeed."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fares Zaatar Responds to Viewers (Pt.1)

                      I was able to review the show in its entirety once again. Apparently, some of material Future TV uploaded did not make it through the download, and I am glad I decide to give this another go because some of the things Fares said were excellent and they merit repeating):


                      Question: "How many Daheshists are there, do you know? "
                      Answer: "I do not know exactly because Daheshism is not an organized body where a person needs to register..."
                      Question: "Are there any organized meetings ...?"
                      Answer: "Honestly, not in the strictest sense of the words. Yes, there are small groups of Daheshists who know each other and who do meet, but there is no organized meetings, as we are not organized. And in my opinion there has to be an organization..."
                      Question: "How many Daheshists do you personally know?"
                      Answer: "Around 1,000".

                      When he was asked if he was today — or considers himself to day to be — the most important ("the greatest") person in Daheshism in Lebanon, or the lawyer of the Daheshists in Lebanon, to both questions, Fares said "Absolutely not."

                      When asked how Fares Zaatar would describe himself, Fares said: "I would just describe myself as Fares Zaater, the lawyer..."

                      Then Zaven interrupted with this question:

                      "Whom, then, do you consider to be the leader of the Daheshists and their frame of reference?"

                      To that, Fares' response was: "In all candor, Doctor Dahesh believes in one thing which is that after his departure, the Daheshists themselves — as a whole — is the frame of reference. In other words, He believes in democracy with regard to managing the affairs of a group."

                      So, one of Fares' important contributions here is that he underlined the Doctor's desire for a democratic Daheshist society.

                      And another thing he said that bears repeating is that what those people who purposely disfigured the image of Doctor Dahesh in order to scare people away from him did a great disservice to them because they were not able to get His true message.

                      On that note, I should probably summarize the opening of the show — when we see the child's scrapbook, children, and merry-go-round and so on:

                      These were excerpts from a student movie that the young lady (who was first interviewed) did as school project.

                      In the beginning, we hear her narrate the following "There are many stories that we hear as children... told to us to keep up in line... the majority of which we outgrow... but there are some stories, like the stories of Dahesh, that never leave us... "

                      And then she explains how her grandmother would tell her "if you don't behave, I'll take you to Dahesh!"

                      Talk about irony... Some parents used to tell their children the exact opposite: "If you don't behave, you won't be allowed to visit Doctor Dahesh."

                      So, basically, this young lady was fascinated by the myth she would not outgrow. And so she interviewed people etc. ... and put together a movie for her class. She got the highest grade. And, I suppose, more than bargained for, since — and by her own admission — little did she know there were Daheshists in Lebanon, let alone find herself surrounded by an audience made up of Daheshists.

                      And I feel bad for the caller whose parents beat up because, at 10 years old, and when he first saw the picture of Doctor Dahesh, he thought he was looking a picture of someone he knew from the village.

                      In fact, I was disgusted to hear that.

                      I know for a fact that the Doctor told my own brother (20 years my senior) that children should not be hit or beaten.

                      So, please, if possible, forgive and do not blame those who think they understand what Daheshism is all about when it comes to raising children...
                      Last edited by Mario; 10-04-2010, 11:54 AM. Reason: Formatting
                      "Fail, to succeed."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Fares Zaatar Responds (Pt.2)

                        01:20:55

                        Zaven: And do you believe that Dahesh is still alive or did he die?
                        Fares: No, for sure he died.

                        Zaven: And his spirit?
                        Fares: His spirit, like the spirit of any man, is immortal.

                        Zaven: Is there any person who claimed "I am Doctor Dahesh?" ...
                        Fares: No, absolutely not.

                        Zaven: ... if there was a reincarnation or not? ...
                        Fares: Even if there is a reincarnation, it not obligatory that he [the person who is reincarnated from him] would have a spiritual Message... In other words... meaning... I think that when Doctor Dahesh left our world he went to a "Heavenly" world, one that is not of Earth's world. He is not in the Earthly world.

                        Zaven: is his Message over, then?
                        Fares: No, his Message still exists, it is not over. It is possible that he might return after 500 or 1000 years. Someone else might come and complete his Message, not necessarily himself, but someone who is a part of him. Meaning... let's say for example there is righteous man in the world that is connected to Doctor Dahesh, and regardless of whether or not he calls himself a Daheshist.

                        Zaven: And do you believe that all six of his personalities are dead?
                        Fares: These personalities exist in worlds that are not [of the level of] planet Earth. They exist in "Heavenly" worlds, and not "Earthly" worlds. These personalities materialized and Haleem Dammoos saw them [at once]. These personalities were sometimes, when Dr. Fareed would show up...

                        Zaven: Did they all die?
                        Fares: These [personalities] don't die. The law of "death" does not apply to them.

                        01:22:22
                        ....

                        Zaven: Is there any one of the Daheshists who believes that Doctor Dahesh is in any particular place... who communicates with any of his personalities...?
                        Fares: No.

                        Zaven: [so] There is no way to be in touch with Dahesh or any one of his personalities...
                        Fares: We establish contact (communicate) with Doctor Dahesh through our thought, through our apostrophes to him — similarly to how a Christian connects with the Lord Christ through his apostrophes to Him... Dahesh is but a person who is subject to the [Earthly] human laws like any human. The prophets were born in Earth and were subject to the laws of Earth...

                        01:27:10

                        Zaven: Do you, somehow... one way or the other, consider Doctor Dahesh as the "Mahdi" or the Jewish "Messiah?"
                        Fares: No, no, definitely no. According to us, He is a person who is sent, who is endowed with a Heavenly Spiritual Power so that he would fulfill His Mission [deliver His Message]... within him is a [Spiritual] Fluid from Lord Christ... within Him is a portion of Lord Christ's [Spiritual] Fluids...

                        01:27:40

                        Zaven: And there is no recognition of this message — from any side...
                        Fares: It doesn't matter... It's not necessary...

                        Zaven: Even in the United States the Museum is not considered as the hub of a [Spiritual] Message...
                        Fares: The Museum is one thing and the Message is something else altogether.

                        Zaven: In other words the Museum is not a center of Spiritual Message.
                        Fares: Nor should it be. When the Vatican has a museum, does that mean that it is teaching Catholicism through it?

                        (Good point, and this is something we've said over and over again in Daheshvile. Except that I take exception to the idea of the Museum openly denying the existence of Daheshism and disavowing the Prophet in Doctor Dahesh then painting him as only a poet, a humanist, and philosopher — which he certainly was not. For one thing, the Daheshist narrative is an integral part of the original collection.)
                        Last edited by Mario; 11-09-2010, 02:15 AM. Reason: Formatting and typo
                        "Fail, to succeed."

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mario View Post

                          And I feel bad for the caller whose parents beat up because, at 10 years old, and when he first saw the picture of Doctor Dahesh, he thought he was looking a picture of someone he knew from the village.

                          In fact, I was disgusted to hear that.

                          I know for a fact that the Doctor told my own brother (20 years my senior) that children should not be hit or beaten.

                          So, please, if possible, forgive and do not blame those who think they understand what Daheshism is all about when it comes to raising children...

                          This was the saddest and most negative part of the show. Maybe you should try to locate this fellow (he gave the name of his village unless I'm mistaking him with another caller) and send him a letter in arabic explaining that these fellows who beat him up were not in any way representative...

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                          • #14
                            Also, there was a caller who said that he heard a story about Dahesh that took place in the Gulf. He said there was a show and that Dahesh arrived an hour late so the audience complained and then Dahesh told them to check their watches and they found out he was on time

                            I think this story is false and was invented by someone. It is my understanding that Dahesh never "performed" in public, let alone in the Gulf so the story cannot be true.

                            Even though this sort of "miracle" (turning back time) is very impressive and makes a good story, I think it is preferable to deny it, because people are going to think that Dahesh was a night club performer so they'll think he might have been a magician.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ziyad View Post
                              This was the saddest and most negative part of the show. Maybe you should try to locate this fellow (he gave the name of his village unless I'm mistaking him with another caller) and send him a letter in arabic explaining that these fellows who beat him up were not in any way representative...
                              Assuming I can locate him (and for me it would be just like looking for a needle in haystack) there is still the matter pertaining to boundaries.

                              In this case, the people who seem to have left him with severe issues he still needs to deal with — somehow — are members of his family. And you know what they say about blood being thicker than water. It may be a cliché, but common wisdom dictates that this gentleman (who I now guess he is around 34 years of age) not be approached by (of all people) a person (in this case, yours truly) whom that guy's family has probably been brainwashed to regard as a pariah.

                              We're talking about people who — from the get-go— were probably raised in an environment where physical and verbal abuse is the norm. I don't want to presume and it would be rude of me to do so. But I have to assume that the way his family members behaved has everything to do with whatever issues they, themselves were grappling with.

                              What this all means — in a nutshell — is this: This person — whoever he may be — is welcome to come to Daheshville and speak openly. And I hope that show we all saw opens the door for others to step up to the podium and speak their minds.

                              Daheshville, is — for all practical purposes — "the west." And in "the west" we believe that "true brotherly love" (or "sisterly love") — which is what Doctor Dahesh called for — cannot be achieved by keeping feelings bottled up.


                              Originally posted by Ziyad View Post
                              Also, there was a caller who said that he heard a story about Dahesh that took place in the Gulf. He said there was a show and that Dahesh arrived an hour late so the audience complained and then Dahesh told them to check their watches and they found out he was on time

                              I think this story is false and was invented by someone. It is my understanding that Dahesh never "performed" in public, let alone in the Gulf so the story cannot be true.


                              Even though this sort of "miracle" (turning back time) is very impressive and makes a good story, I think it is preferable to deny it, because people are going to think that Dahesh was a night club performer so they'll think he might have been a magician.
                              The story is certainly untrue because I was once invited to a barbecue given by the nephew of a famous Lebanese diplomat (now deceased). The father-in-law of that nephew, once he heard I knew Doctor Dahesh, proudly told the exact story — except that it happened in Jerusalem. Of course, I was tempted to believe him, but then I thought "what 12 year old from those days had a watch?" (One would really have had to have grown in the Middle East, in the 1960's to appreciate this commentary). And when I spoke to my brother about it, circa 2001, he immediately told me the story was not true. Not because the idea of a Doctor Dahesh performing magical tricks is abhorrent. In fact, if we think about it, prestidigitation is a noble art form and Dr. Dahesh was a fan — his collection contains "kits" he purchased. In fact, one time, I saw Amira Zahid holding a set of instructions that came with some sort of box and she was shaking her head. I said "what's the matter?" She said "I now have to read all this, learn how to do the trick, and then show it to the Doctor!"

                              Classic Doctor Dahesh, like the time he handed me a book in book in passing and said "here, please make us this..."

                              It was a model of the Taj Mahal. You've probably seen these books "Build the Empire State Building," "Build the London Bridge" etc. Well, he handed me the toughest one to do. And there is no way I was going to refuse. Well, I COULD have refused. But I knew that he had his reasons for giving me that assignment I ALREADY dreaded doing — long before he handed me the book: I used to see the models featured in some of the bookstores and think to myself "who in their right mind would waste energy doing this sort of stuff?!"

                              Basically, and especially that I was architecture student, building models was something I loathed because I just didn't (then) have the necessary patience. Well, let me tell you, that "assignment" he gave me, was my serious entry in the world of "patience"... And it's thanks to "patience" I was able to produce the many projects I have been blessed with producing. And it was thanks to that project he gave me.

                              In any case, and going back to the issue of performing magic in public: Firstly, I would bet my life that Doctor Dahesh (assuming he ever worked as a legitimate magician in order to put food on the table — let's not forget, he had a mother and sister to take care of) would never frequent "night clubs."

                              Secondly, I don't know if he did or didn't perform — and earn a living as — a legitimate "illusionist."

                              But one thing for sure is that he had to find a way to earn a living.

                              Now, let's kick this a notch higher and remember that he went to that "Institute for Psychic Research" (in those days, many propped up) and submitted himself to being sealed inside a coffin and dipped into the River Seine!

                              I mean, look at the irony: he felt it necessary to approach "those kind of people" (who I am sure he didn't take seriously), bowed to their rules, performed an incredible Miracle (which they viewed as being the result of some higher "Psychic Power") and bestowed upon him the title of "DOCTOR." He basically blew their minds and ended up acquiring the right to call himself "Doctor Dahesh."

                              It was all, I think, for the sake of "branding" and "public relations."

                              Frankly, I think he couldn't care less about such titles and that he did what he had to do in order to acquire what was — in those days — a rare title.

                              Today, sorry to say it, but "Doctors" are a dime a dozen. Back then, and in the Middle East, to have a "Doctorate" from "France" carried a lot of weight. Heck, I remember watching those Egyptian movies and hearing "Baash Muhandes" ("sir Engineer" or "sir Architect"). In those days, "Architect, Doctor, Engineer," commanded respect. Today... well... maybe I'm wrong.

                              In any case, we always need to keep the geo-social and historical context in mind when processing the Daheshist narrative. Of course, certain people should not, under any circumstance, be told everything — or "the truth" — whatever that truth might be.

                              Others, as I have personally seen, will look at one aspect (only) of the narrative (such as... the illustrations featuring nudity) and assume he condoned (for example) the kind of activities he would surely be against.

                              So, I guess with the advent of the information age and the internet, we can't simply protect all the people all the time. It's a person's responsibility to acquire (via education and life experience) the necessary "filters" and process the information accordingly. And that sometimes takes years.

                              Case in point, I had the same "conversation" with another Daheshville member (the posts are still there) and we never heard from him again. He presented himself, and acted like, a devout Daheshist. Anything he wrote was preceded with expressions of respect towards myself and others... but I felt he was respecting us a little "too much." I mean, I am talking about "reverence."

                              So, we wanted him to "snap" out of it. We tried to get him to "discuss" and "interact" versus "recite" ... No dice. We never heard from him again. And it's probably a good thing for him. Because, out "here" it's brutal and a far cry from the "idyllic" or "Utopian" world he and others need to feel they are in ...
                              Last edited by Daheshville; 10-08-2010, 08:33 AM. Reason: Typographical errors.
                              "Fail, to succeed."

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