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  • pork meat

    the quraan states clearly that : Dont eat porc meat(Horima aaleikom lahm il khinzeeer). The Jews also are forbidden to eat it .
    Can i know the opinion of Dr.Dahesh about this subject ?


  • #2
    OK, before I answer that question, I need to issue the following general announcement (and I can't believe I am actually saying this) just in case anybody out there (no Sonic, this is NOT addressed to you...) has any funny ideas ... plus, what's a reply about food, by yours truly, without a dash of humour and a sprinkle of controversy?

    Listen up people:

    After I am done replying to Sonic, don't you (Muslims and Jews) go thinking : "Cool! We'll switch! After all, Dahesh IS a prophet!"

    Read this first:
    There a famous Daheshist who (WHILE BEING A DAHESHIST) had the brilliant idea to convert to ISLAM (he was Christian... as far as his nationality papers were concerned) to PLEASE HIS INLAWS ... and so that his wife won't lose the inheritance! He wasn's JUST any Daheshist, OK? This was a MOUNTAIN of knowledge... Proof once again that information does not always equal intelligence!

    Do you think the Doctor was pleased? It is actions such as these (in my opinion always) that have necessitated the Doctor to dictate a long list (many volumes' worth I hear) about the "Dos and Don'ts"

    And that is HOW a divine faith, built upon the MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE as its key ingredient—where each individual knows what they have to do— DEGENERATES into RELIGION with priests going about reminding us what we can and can't do!

    Now, I'll reply to you Sonic:

    I was in the Doctor's kitchen. It was in 1979. I was staying at his house and was making my way up to the shower that was located on the roof... There was a conversation taking place between Dr. Fareed Abu Suleiman and another Daheshist. The Doctor was sitting at the head of the kitchen Table—his usual spot. Fareed was pressing a lemon... He drank the juice of a lemon every day for the Vitamic C. Fareed was a real Doctor (MD) by the way...and I think the conversation might have been about eating or not eating eggs... I can' remember... but what I DO remember and will NEVER forget is Dr. Dahesh interjecting HIS opinion (he wasn't asked, he was just a listener) and Dr. Dahesh said in Arabic: "Waaha Yaakul Kul Shi" which translates to "One should eat everything." Put in context: Everything in moderation.

    Now, did Doctor Dahesh eat "everything?" No. He liked certain foods and wouldn't even dream of touching others. For example, when I made FROG LEGS, that was funny to him.

    And, lucky for me he didn't want to eat the Shrimp that someone had brought to the house circa 1979. Zeina turned and said "Mario, do you want the shrimp?" (I've never had REAL Shrimp before in my life)

    From what I saw, Doctor Dahesh appreciated good food. There are some he ate, others he didn't—out of personal preference. My mother was a great cook and she was making stuffed eggplant at the house (you know, the miniature ones stuffed with rice and meat) and the Doctor discreetly asked her if she can add extra pommegranite syrup (for you "Batenjaan Mehshi" connaisseurs) into the mix.
    Last edited by Johnson; 08-30-2007, 11:34 AM. Reason: Reinventing the English Language wasn't working for us...
    "Fail, to succeed."


    • #3
      With all respect Mario but I think it is incomplete information, maybe no one has asked the Doctor about this specific subject? Or no one saw Dr dahesh eating porc?



      • #4
        I've seen the Doctor eat a Big Mac from MacDonalds... I don't remember if he ate pork. I know we (my brothers and I) ate pork (Ham, mortadella etc) often and he never said anything pertaining to that.

        All I know is that the Doctor said what he said... If pork was a Muharram, he wouldn't have said "Waahad Yakul Kul Shi" he would have said "One should eat everything EXCEPT...

        Also, when I knew him, he had to watch his Cholesterol level. So he even declined to eat Avocados once (in front of me) because of his health and he loved Avocados.

        But, you're techincally correct, unless someone (and someone who is RELIABLE) asked him SPECIFICALLY about pork, we can't say that it is allowed (because, obviously, we don't have "the manual" on that) NOR CAN WE SAY IT IS FORBIDDEN.

        In any case, your argument is valid.

        But I will say once again: Daheshism is NOT Islam although MANY Daheshists were Muslims before they WILLINGLY CONVERTED to Daheshism.

        Also,in Daheshist belief: wanting, dreaming, yearning, etc. for something is practically as IF one is actually doing it. In other words, thoughs are accountable as well. Now, are they AS accountable as the actual action? I don't know to what degree. But they are not to be taken as mere harmless thoughts.
        Last edited by Johnson; 08-30-2007, 11:35 AM.
        "Fail, to succeed."


        • #5
          Did Dr. Dahesh ever give any guidance regarding the use of alcohol and tobacco products?


          • #6
            Based on Sonic's response to my initial response to his question pertaining to eating pork, I'll go on record saying that I never heard Doctor Dahesh say anything pertaining smoking and alcohol (except for the comment about marijuana, of course, which I've posted in another thread).

            I'll also go on record saying that I have SEEN the Doctor smoke cigarettes on RARE occasions. In fact, I remember being shocked that he visited (if I am not mistaken) Nat Sherman's on Fifth Avenue and brought back an interesting assortment of custom-made cigarettes (so, these were not off-the shelf, and I would assume did not contain the chemicals typically found in mass-produced cigarettes). These cigarettes were certainly unique as far as the color of the paper (and print) in which the tobacco was rolled in, as well as their lengths. Some were (something in the order of) 8 inches long, for example. In any case, very unique. In one case, and during one of this stays with me, he and I were sitting in the living room of the apartment, and he lit and smoked a cigarette whose length was the standard (small) size. It might have been turquoise as far as the paper color... Anyway, I blinked and the cigarette became about 8 inches long!

            That aside, let me know tell you what I heard: He smoked Tobacco (based on what reliable sources told me) for specific reasons, applicable only to him. And I can't honestly say that outside of those rare times I've seen him stop everything and sit down to smoke, that he was a smoker. In other words, I never ever saw him (for example) light a cigarette and sit and chat, work, etc.

            I might have heard from my brother (telling someone) that he did in fact also drink wine (again, on rare occasions, and for reasons that are hidden perhaps)

            But I've never seen him drink any alcohol.

            I saw him drink tea, juice, coffee. Rarely (if at all) have I seen him drink water (except for the daily hot water, lemon, and honey drink I made for him).

            I heard him once tell that he even tried juicing onions... he didn't like the taste.

            Now, have I seen Daheshists drink... anywhere from moderate drinking to a LOT ... most definitely. In one eery circumstance, I dreamt I was telling a Daheshist that I could no longer be his brother because he was drinking so much and driving... soon after that, his mother told me he ended up going to jail for DUI.

            I've also seen Daheshists smoke... both men and women...

            And, speaking of DUI, the Doctor once kept me with him, on purpose, for several days, so that I would not be involved in an accident in which a drunk driver would have rammed my car and caused my body to be completely crushed... He told me "I had this vision of your chest etc. completely crushed... you wouldn't have died... but you would have become an invalid... " he then told me "this isn't your fault. There is a spiritual fluid that means you great harm..."

            So imagine that meeting...

            Then, a few days later, he called me and asked me to come to see him. I was driving at night and I was on the Hutchinson Parkway in NY state. At one point, I saw this white Lincoln in front of me that was sort of driving funny and slow... we're talking 30 or 20 miles per hour... I was following the car in the right lane, waiting for my chance to pass it when I noticed that EVERY TIME another car tried to pass the white car the latter literally looked as it it was going to crash into it by making a sudden lane change the left! One after the other, the cars passing that white car, escaped... I, on the other hand, remembered the conversation with the Doctor form a couple of nights before and something told me to stay put and no attempt to pass that—now I see—drunk driver. So, I followed him for miles... going at a snail's pace, until we got to the Merit Parkway, and there were now several lanes. The white car slowed down and finally came to a full halt... That's when I finally passed it, but not before I got a good look at the driver. He could hardly keep his head up.

            And I continued on to see the Doctor. He was staying in the "Cottage" and I when I saw him I said "I am sorry for being a little late..." and I explained what happened. That's when said to me "You were very wise in not passing that car. That Spiritual Fluid that wanted your demise was angry that you escaped and it was still trying to get you..."

            Since that day, I've seen a couple of car crashes due to drunk driving. I've made sure I kept my distance.
            Last edited by Daheshville; 03-07-2011, 12:24 PM.
            "Fail, to succeed."


            • #7
              Smoking and health codes

              I once heard from a spiritually enlightened individual that the smell of tobacco smoke sticks to one's soul even after passing away.

              The theme of abstaining from alcohol and harmful substances seems prevalent among inspired religions in the last two centuries.

              LDS (Latter-Day Saints) health code ("Word of Wisdom") with related blessings:


              In the revelation it says that "And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill." From the information here, I assume that the Doctor used tobacco rarely for health reasons for which he knew how to use with "judgment and skill". LDS members refrain from alcohol, tobacco, coffee, caffeinated teas (it is believed that coffee and tea is what the Lord was referring to as "hot drinks"), and illegal or harmful drugs. Many choose also to refrain from caffeinated soda pop even though it is not a religious requirement.

              LDS members are not restricted as far as eating pork or any other meats but are encouraged to eat in moderation and ideally "sparingly". LDS are told in another revelation that it is not God's will for man to abstain from meat, but that meat from hunting or killing animals should not be wasted.


              I thought this account would be an interesting read:

              "We crossed the Embarras river and encamped on a small branch of the same about one mile west. In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, "Let them alone—don't hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety." The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger.

              I had frequently spoken on this subject, when on a certain occasion I came up to the brethren who were watching a squirrel on a tree, and to prove them and to know if they would heed my counsel, I took one of their guns, shot the squirrel and passed on, leaving the squirrel on the ground. Brother Orson Hyde, who was just behind, picked up the squirrel, and said, "We will cook this, that nothing may be lost." I perceived that the brethren understood what I did it for, and in their practice gave more heed to my precept than to my example, which was right."

              Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 vols., 2d ed., edited by B. H. Roberts (Salt Lake City, Utah: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1932-51), 2:71-72.

              I strive to live the above health code, but I believe each person has the right to decide the health code they will live by and thus what physical and spiritual blessings they wish to receive as a result.
              Last edited by WingedPaladin; 08-27-2007, 09:27 PM.


              • #8
                Identifying oneself with a particular belief system is never as simple as obeying what one thinks are the abc’s of that particular belief system. One does not magically °poof° become a particular faith because of a few “do this', don’t do thats” scenarios.. In Daheshsim, the INTENT is more important than any specific actions. (not that actions aren't important!)... (this actually applies to every other belief system as well, but few if anyone ever truly understands that.) Also, to further cloud the complexities, what is good for one individual (prophet or ‘civilian’) may or may not be good for another individual. Therefore, again, everything comes back to INTENT. I think the overall message here, that I have heard from Mario and others that lived with and observed Dr.Dahesh on a regular basis, MODERATION is key in all things in light of these seemingly gray areas. THOUGHTFUL moderation… “why am I doing this?” “what are the physical (spiritual) ramifications of my doing this?” “do I control this action, or is this action controlling me?” “am I truly being honest with myself within the confines of my actions?”


                • #9
                  Wonderful words of wisdom Johnson. I believe intent is everything as it reflects the inward condition of the soul. With God being the source of love and creation, to grow closer to Him, our goal might be to become both absorbers and mirrors of that love through prayer, creativity, and service. The secret I have learned is the more love we give away, the more we receive.

                  I believe the body itself is a temple that not only houses our own spirit, but it can also be a temple for the Spirit of God. The better we treat this physical gift, the more freedom and sometimes time we will have to accomplish much good in this life and the better receptor of Heavenly inspiration we become.

                  I know I still have much to learn and much to improve on. I thank Heaven for God's continuing patience for me.


                  • #10
                    Winged... thank you for bringing up the wonderful adage that "my body is my temple"... I think with all the "awakenings" we are coming in to with homeopathic and "alternative" (funny term... given the long standing elemental beauty of the natural healing power in the organic world around us!) medicine. Much of what is haram (that which is unclean) or khamr (intoxicants) in Islam or not Kosher by observant Jews (can only eat meat with a cloven hoof, ie. cows and sheep... no pork, even though pigs have a cloven hoof, they are not ruminants, being they don't chew their cud)... much of this, while in the realm of a physical act; dealing with recommended hygiene and care of our physical bodies; it is actually a model of caring for our spiritual selves which is inseperable from our spiritual entities... hence, coming back to taking care of our bodily temples.

                    We are spiritual beings having a physical experience. We now understand the potential deadly allergies certain people have for various shell fishes, we understand the potential hazards pork meat can cause our physical bodies as a result of the ingestions that pigs enjoy partaking in... many people are lactose intollerant (and I believe we are the only species that drinks another creatures milk) or have deadly allergies to nuts or even have wheat allergies... If any of these ailments or allergies disturb our system (and we are all different...) those things are truly verboten to us.

                    None of these observations are to condone or criticize one's belief system... each of us must find the path that is right for us... right for our own personal beliefs and personal, inner intentions...

                    Personally, I think in today's modern world, we can each find what is "haram" or "kosher" for each of us.

                    (***NOTICE ALERT... the following represents the sole likes, tastes and preferences of the author only!!! These expressed biases are based upon the author's decisions that he has made soley for himself and in no way are to be construed or implied that this personal preference is good or best for anyone else, other than the author's mind, body and spirit...***)


                    For me, personally, much of my diet regime modifications have had to do with looking to foods that help my immune system and minimizing the various foods that exacerbate toxins or inflammations within my body. As a result, yes, much of my diet would historically be considered mostly kosher and exclusionary of many of the meats and foods that are considered haram. Physically (actually SPIRITUALLY) I inherited the wonderful mallady of arthritis from my parents and from their parents. I find that many meats, especially pork products (and to a lesser extent, for me, products from cows and chickens) contain a lot of purines and these adversely affect my joints. I also find that eating a lot of breads (and certainly there is the whole carbohydrate debate...but aside from that) I find that a lot of wheat, can cause a moderate swelling in my tissues; especially my joints... so I think I have a moderate allergy to wheat...

                    It sounds so cliche... but, we have to listen to our bodies... our bodies are not independent of our spiritual lives... our bodies are indeed the vessels of our spirit... our spiritual temples... in fact they are all ruled by the same spiritual fluid entities. I know, that again, for ME... if I eat a lot of pork and eat a lot of bread... my physicality, my spirituality even, feels weakened... I am in physical pain (hence, spiritual) and I cannot do the things I want to do or feel I should do... the pain can sometimes cause complete immobility and this in turn can lead to frustration, depression... and well, we all have the means to our own inner downward spirals!


                    • #11
                      That is a great point you make of how the physical can affect the spiritual and vice versa.

                      "There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes; We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter." - Joseph Smith, Jr. (Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8)

                      I've found this to be true. Our spirit would be able to shake hands with another spirit as if it were physical, but the physical body passes right through the spirit body.

                      To see how this principle can be applied:

                      I believe this is possible because physical matter is made up of a lot of empty space within atoms as well as between molecules.

                      There are experiments being done in Japan and all over the world to test how prayer, emotions, thoughts, music, and even the written word affects our physical world:


                      These tests focus mainly on the water molecule, but I believe all physical matter is affected and inseparable from the spiritual dimensions of thought, emotion, and vibration. Matter itself consists of packets of energy, each with its own vibrational frequency.

                      The Spirit of the Lord, love, gratitude, other positive emotions, optimistic thinking, prayer, and faith promote physical health while negative emotions, destructive, and pessimistic thinking hinders the physical body from healing itself and functioning properly. I've had times in my life where my own prayers as well as the prayers of others in my behalf have been of great benefit to my healing both physical and spiritual.


                      • #12
                        And as with our beings, there is the spiritual essence of the living entities that are our 'food'. We consume the essences and spiritualities of the fruits, vegetables and meats as well as their that those essences live and continue as part of us, spiritually and physically. This is why eating is a time of prayer... a time of thanks and remembrance; think about it... some other living thing (fruit, vegetable, animal) is giving their physical and spiritual entities so that our physical and spiritual entities may live. THIS is the true nature of the mindful reason and imperative for some sort of private inner prayer of thanks at the meals we partake in... or at the very least, prayerful and thankful remembrance within the realm of our spiritual lives, for the balance that has to exist for our existence.


                        • #13

                          Dear brothers and sisters,
                          I would like to emphasize on a very impoertant priciple in Daheshism,it is about the spirit.Actually in daheshism it is well explained that matter is constituted from 1.spirit and 2.spiritual fluids.So the spirit is the pure form that dwells in the heavenly realms and it is not mixed in any way with matter or the spiritual fluids.Secondly the spiritual fluids are unseen spiritual matters,and they vary in their form according to the degree of their purity.however,thecondensed form of the spiritual fluids are the flesh or matter that we see by our eyes.The spirit according to Daheshism is linked with the spiritual fluids by a thin thread of light.And it is up to us to carry this spiritual fluid to a higher or lower degree depending upon our deeds,so the spirit is a witness to whatever we do.
                          But the guiding beloved prophet explains that not any person can have power over any matter,and he explained that only God can perform miracles through his prophets,who can have this power,so the miracles that happen infront of many brothers and sisters during the stay of Dr. Dahesh were indications that he was with us in the flesh,since prophets are the ONLY people who can perform them, and not any other person CAN.
                          And that was the case with Lord Jesus,all people came to HIM to believe in him,and Dr.Dahesh challenged any one who can perform them,but no person could do ANY of them, because he was the person who is MEANT to perform them,and I totally believe in Dr.Dahesh's teachings,because when the prophets are on our earth,God's full power is with them Only to carry his word,and the miracles are to indicate that PROPHETS are present to raise people's faith,and the miracles may happen WITH THE prophets,BY GOD'S POWER,taking all forms for God is capable of doing anything,and the target and purpose of the miracles is always the same,as no any other person could not perform miracles except the prohets even when the prophets were on earth,as it is always specially when the prophets are with God.
                          And it is clear how Dr. Ghazi Brax revealed all the people who claimed to have certain pschic powers,and these people admitted that all the science of parapsycholgy is fake and there is nothing true about them.
                          So It is God who performs the miracles in times of need,to people who deserve,since it is either a person can do them Or not.Therefore the prophets as it is stated in Daheshism are the ONLY people who can perform them.With all respct to all brothers asisters.
                          And God bless you All.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yousef Kabalan Salameh View Post

                            And it is clear how Dr. Ghazi Brax revealed all the people who claimed to have certain pschic powers,and these people admitted that all the science of parapsycholgy is fake and there is nothing true about them.

                            Only Doctor Dahesh "reveals" things ...

                            Just so that we are clear ... Mr Brax is only writing what The Doctor revealed to him, what The Doctor asked him to write, what The Doctor taught him ... Right

                            Thank you
                            Last edited by Johnson; 09-06-2007, 11:19 AM.


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Yousef Kabalan Salameh View Post

                              So the spirit is the pure form that dwells in the heavenly realms and it is not mixed in any way with matter or the spiritual fluids.
                              The spirit according to Daheshism is linked with the spiritual fluids by a thin thread of light.
                              You say that the spirit is "not mixed in any way" with (in other words, totally independent from) matter (which is a condensed form of the spiritual fluid... in essence, a slowing down of the "vibration"... if I may use this analogy) AND the spiritual fluid — the conscious essential force "matrix" of all things in the universe... So How can the Spirit then be "linked" to the spiritual fluids? To what aim?

                              To be "linked" to something means there is a connection, a communication, a level of dependency, a degree of feedback, etc. with that particular something.

                              So why is the Spirit connected to the spiritual fluid if the Spirit is so independent from them?

                              That's number one...

                              Number two: "light"(correct me if I am wrong) made of photon energy, whose speed cannot surpass 300 000 Kilometers per second, far slower than the speed of ... thought... and as we know, thoughts can cause the spiritual fluids to rise or fall. Thought is also made of spiritual fluid, isn't it?

                              So how can photon energy, which is far slower than the energy of the spiritual fluid (of which "thought" is made) be the link between it and the Spirit which dwells in the "heavenly realms" ? (I take it you mean in an alternate dimension, not visible to our eyes nor can it be detected by any RADAR or machine designed to identify cosmic waves).