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  • Questions about the purpose of depicting evil in some of Dr Dahesh's writings

    Greetings,

    First, I would like to thank you for your welcome and the membership. It's an honor.

    Introduction to my first questions:

    Reading "Strange Tales and Marvelous Legends" (4 books in Arabic) signed by Dr. Dahesh, I found a few stories to be quite entertaining but most other stories to be shockingly and unexpectedly overloaded with gore and evil: demons, atrocities, horrible events, fornication, lust, etc. Two examples are (1) the story of "iblees azzaneem washshaytan arrajeem" in which a woman marries the devil, bears him a wicked son and faces a mysterious death at the end (vol. 1, page 88/174 - pdf link below) and (2) "waalida taahirat athayl wa shakika takiya nakiya" (vol. 1, p. 30/174 - pdf link below), the latter describing two young men who, at some point, watch their mother and sister fornicate with ghosts! Then one brother spits out a piece of his lung before the wood watcher madly smashes the flesh and bones of the whole family with his hammer until the whole thing becomes a gross mass of meat!!!

    Even more worrying and disturbing are the articles about the "traitor" "Abderrahim Ashshareef Alkhaleeli", apparently a real person who betrayed Dr Dahesh -- articles found at the end of the 2nd volume (pdf link below). These articles are, IMHO, an insult to human dignity and are unacceptable by all rational standards! The language used is extremely vulgar; they don't even spare the guy's mother and sisters! Very degrading and I really felt sick reading them!!

    My questions:

    How can such hellish, horrible and filthy stories be found in books attributed to a man who is supposed to be a pure saint and a holy messenger of God?

    What's the noble purpose of publishing such pathetic and inhuman material with such a high level of explicit details and how do Daheshists justify the despise of human dignity as clearly shown in the articles about "Abderrahim Ashshareef Alkhaleeli"? Did Jesus for instance describe or treat Judas Iscariot like this?

    In my humble opinion, there are surely better ways to illustrate human evil. Seriously, I think the books could better inspire horror and torture porn movie makers and it is not clear to me how they would offer any useful advice or teaching to normal people.

    Last but not least, I would like to stress to all readers that I do have a great respect for Dr. Dahesh and his followers; I'm simply expressing my first thoughts and impressions here; ceci dit, with a fair twist of reason, I leave a place for doubt: May be I got it all wrong after all. Therefore, I would like to believe and hope that Daheshists will be kind enough to answer my questions and clarify the raised issues for the sake of other potential seekers and mine.

    As you know, true seekers are always your best friends.

    My best regards,
    Robert


    Volume 1 URL:
    http://www.daheshisme.org/editorimg/...es_1.pdf28.pdf

    Volume 2 URL:
    http://www.daheshisme.org/editorimg/...es_2.pdf19.pdf

  • #2
    Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
    Greetings,

    First, I would like to thank you for your welcome and the membership. It's an honor.

    Introduction to my first questions:

    Reading "Strange Tales and Marvelous Legends" (4 books in Arabic) signed by Dr. Dahesh, I found a few stories to be quite entertaining but most other stories to be shockingly and unexpectedly overloaded with gore and evil: demons, atrocities, horrible events, fornication, lust, etc. Two examples are (1) the story of "iblees azzaneem washshaytan arrajeem" in which a woman marries the devil, bears him a wicked son and faces a mysterious death at the end (vol. 1, page 88/174 - pdf link below) and (2) "waalida taahirat athayl wa shakika takiya nakiya" (vol. 1, p. 30/174 - pdf link below), the latter describing two young men who, at some point, watch their mother and sister fornicate with ghosts! Then one brother spits out a piece of his lung before the wood watcher madly smashes the flesh and bones of the whole family with his hammer until the whole thing becomes a gross mass of meat!!!

    Even more worrying and disturbing are the articles about the "traitor" "Abderrahim Ashshareef Alkhaleeli", apparently a real person who betrayed Dr Dahesh -- articles found at the end of the 2nd volume (pdf link below). These articles are, IMHO, an insult to human dignity and are unacceptable by all rational standards! The language used is extremely vulgar; they don't even spare the guy's mother and sisters! Very degrading and I really felt sick reading them!!

    My questions:

    How can such hellish, horrible and filthy stories be found in books attributed to a man who is supposed to be a pure saint and a holy messenger of God?

    What's the noble purpose of publishing such pathetic and inhuman material with such a high level of explicit details and how do Daheshists justify the despise of human dignity as clearly shown in the articles about "Abderrahim Ashshareef Alkhaleeli"? Did Jesus for instance describe or treat Judas Iscariot like this?

    In my humble opinion, there are surely better ways to illustrate human evil. Seriously, I think the books could better inspire horror and torture porn movie makers and it is not clear to me how they would offer any useful advice or teaching to normal people.

    Last but not least, I would like to stress to all readers that I do have a great respect for Dr. Dahesh and his followers; I'm simply expressing my first thoughts and impressions here; ceci dit, with a fair twist of reason, I leave a place for doubt: May be I got it all wrong after all. Therefore, I would like to believe and hope that Daheshists will be kind enough to answer my questions and clarify the raised issues for the sake of other potential seekers and mine.

    As you know, true seekers are always your best friends.

    My best regards,
    Robert


    Volume 1 URL:
    http://www.daheshisme.org/editorimg/...es_1.pdf28.pdf

    Volume 2 URL:
    http://www.daheshisme.org/editorimg/...es_2.pdf19.pdf
    Welcome Robert and thank you for posting your questions, and likewise, I assure you.

    Every once in a great while, a seminal thread, such as yours, materializes and creates a pivotal moment in the timeline and shifts the debate to the core issues.

    I greatly appreciate your courage and sense of discretion. Your respect for Dr. Dahesh is evident in the way you addressed the issues. So I will do my best to address them, and I hope others will too.

    But first, and because I am a stickler for accurate reporting, I need to set the record straight:

    Firstly, whoever transcribed the book made a typographical error that altered the meaning of one word: on page 34/174,
    one line should read وكذالك كانت شقيقتهما فتنة .

    Secondly, the woman and sister weren't fornicating with ghosts, and nor did the park ranger massacre "the whole family."

    I know that it doesn't change the fact that this story is potentially depressing, oozing with cynicism, and makes Stephen King's "The Shining" sound like a comedy.

    Still, for accuracy's sake: the mother made the sons believe that the fortress was haunted by ghosts — obviously to make sure her sons never set foot there.

    The two brothers, Baady and Ghaady, had so much faith in the lies which their mother was feeding them — in terms of "Ghost stories" — that they would eventually see ghosts where there were none, due to the powers of suggestion exerted by their mother.

    Furthermore, the whole village believed her as well, for she had obviously concocted an elaborate ruse in order to keep everyone at bay and to make sure no one steps foot anywhere near that fortress.

    Then we learn that the man with whom the mother was fornicating — named Badriddeen — was under the impression that the brothers were his off-springs all along, until the park ranger (literally) sold him the news that it was he, — the park ranger — and not Badriddeen, who was the two boy's biological father.

    Which is why, once the park ranger saw the lifeless bodies of his two sons and that of their mother — his lover — went insane and massacred Badriddeen and his son (the one who was fornicating with the daughter).

    Baady, Ghaady, mother and sister, all basically died from traumatic shock: the brothers died as a result of seeing the truth about their mother and sister, and in turn, the mother and sister died as a result of knowing they were responsible for the boy’s deaths.


    And nowhere, in the story, does Doctor Dahesh glamorize any of what transpired. He retold — and commented on — a true story, using as much discretion as one could muster under such circumstances.

    I said “true story,” didn’t I.

    Well, here’s the clincher: none of the stories in any of the four volumes of "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends" are made up, even less for the sake of pure entertainment.

    If that were the case, he would have stuck to one style or the other. But that was not his intention.


    Now as far as Al Shareef, I examined the pdfs and I can safely report that a *lot of information* was omitted, including images, affidavits, signed declarations, all of which were part of a SELF-DEFENSE campaign that Doctor Dahesh mounted in response to the harm that Al Shareef was causing. Especially that no one else was defending him.

    I don’t mind telling you that if you think this is bad, wait until you grab hold of the 720 page book that appeared on the scene and found its way into all the embassies in the Middle East... (Al Shareef was a government official by that time).

    Be that as it may, let me address your concerns:

    I am no Bible Scholar, but if I am not mistaken, the Old Testament is no slouch either when it comes to delivering content that espouses the negative characteristics you describe.

    So, from that point of view, we have a precedent.

    And I would submit to you that the Old Testament was even more explicit than anything Doctor Dahesh might have written in these stories.


    Furthermore, I am afraid we're beating the straw man because of some preconceived notions:

    Doctor Dahesh never claimed to be "a pure saint and a holy messenger of God."


    Perhaps we should describe him as “as pure as he tried to be and a messenger of HOLY GOD.”

    In addition, I wonder how you would have felt if you knew who Al Shareef was, what he did, said, and wrote — especially that he would eventually open the door to a series of events culminating in Magda Haddad committing suicide, as a desperate act of protest.

    And I can’t tell you what Jesus Christ might have done.

    I do know, however, that even Jesus himself “Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves” (http://kjv.us/matthew/21.htm)


    He certainly was a messenger of God. But what does “pure” mean? Is anyone who exists as a human truly pure, or a saint for that matter, including a Messenger of God Almighty?

    For that, we need to consult the writings of Doctor Dahesh, and let’s look at a couple of quick examples.


    In his book of prayers, called “Humble Supplications” Doctor Dahesh wrote such words:

    أيها الخالق الجبار! 1

    ا
    نني انحني بخشوع أمام سدتك الإلهية, 2

    ضارعاً إليك بأن ترحم ضعفي البشري ، فتمحو آثامي. 3

    إ
    ن الرغبات والميول التي تتصارع في داخلي لرهيبة. 4



    The above (and please correct me if I am mistaken)loosely translates to him kneeling before almighty God and beseeching Him for His mercy.

    Doctor Dahesh clearly speaks of his own human weakness and of the desires and tendencies that are conflicting within him, and how horrible it all was to bear.


    And he certainly did not act as a so-called saint or holy man.

    On that front, I personally witnessed with my own eyes and ears the following incident (even though I've already told it once, somewhere on Daheshville, it bears repeating):

    I was at Doctor Dahesh's in Beirut, and he was greeting visitors, among whom were a small family consisting of a mother, father, and son (the latter was in his early to late twenties). The Doctor shook hands with the parents, and when it was the son's turn, the latter bowed and tried the kiss the Doctor's hand. The Doctor IMMEDIATELY retracted his hand and exclaimed "God Forbid!" إزتخفرالله

    Then, please ponder this excerpt from page 86 in"Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III" (here, Doctor Dahesh, who is retelling a fantastic dream he had, in which he ultimately visits the world of the Prophets, and hears THE CHRIST addressing His Spiritual Fluids — which include Moses, Daniel, and Jesus, among others — and lamenting over key egregious mistakes committed by the Christians, or those who were meant to follow the teaching of his envoy, Jesus Christ)

    " And what beckons deep thought are these fairy tales in which all the people of Earth were carried away, and especially the Christians who are connected to me, is in that they say that I was born from the Virgin Mary, meaning that I sprang from the Holy Spirit, for what merit would I have — if only they realize — if I was born by a spiritual power and by a Heavenly Miracle, for then I would be enjoying a Godly Power that would protect me from committing [ al danaaya ] (lowly acts?), and places me over humans, and eliminate from me the aspect of being human, and then there wouldn't be any merit in my being correct and honest [...] and for calling towards... righteousness and to be steadfast in religion and fearing the last day.

    "And merit, all the merit would be mine if I was born from two parents and upon me was applied what would apply to every human being, only then would I have all the merit ... that is if I was able to overcome my earthly temptations... and called for righteousness... after I was able to practice (it) myself and made it bow to my will, without negligence overwhelming me or weakness that makes me fall on my face before the temptations of Earth. And that is what makes me wonder about the weak-mindedness of the millions whom the truth missed, so they believed the hoax and abandoned the true fact which they were obligated not to forsake."



    And in that same Chapter, and leading up to his visiting that realm of the Prophets, Doctor Dahesh is taken to a mountain, from which he was able to see his Spiritual Fluids — those who were lofty and those who resided in the lower worlds. And that's where a revelation is given to him in terms of the dynamics involved in the interaction of the lofty and lowly Fluids. To put into very simple terms, he discovered that when we are tempted to do one action or the other, it is none other than our own spiritual fluids who are pulling our strings, if I may use the analogy of the puppet master. In other words, may they live in higher or lower levels, these Spiritual Fluids — which are extensions of ourselves existing in these other dimensions — want to attract our "energy" their way. Their respective survival depends on it.

    Therefore, there are degrees of purity and no material being is 100% pure.

    Doctor Dahesh never claimed perfection.

    There is nothing he was able to achieve as a HUMAN BEING, who is subject to the universal laws of physics, and of nature in general, that none can't achieve.

    The fact that he was a messenger of God, did not preclude him from making mistakes.

    He wasn't just an example to admire from afar. He was a model to follow.

    As for being a Prophet endowed with the privilege of being the vessel for the Spirit that performed the supernatural phenomena, delivered prophecies, and made revelations: That matter is strictly administered and enforced by God.

    Furthermore, we are told that any being can — through reincarnation — purify its spiritual fluids to such an extent as to be able to rejoin the realm of God.


    And for the record, one time in NYC, and as he was busy writing at the corner desk, I went up to him and asked him, almost whispering : “Doctor, have you ever seen God?” He stopped, smiled and said: “No one knows what God is, not even the prophets.” Meaning that the real nature of God is beyond even the understanding of the prophets.

    I know God had taken some sort of form in some stories we read in the Old Testament, or that he “spoke” to the prophets. But according to what the Doctor told me, we cannot truly see, fathom, appreciate, and so on, God.

    In fact, the Doctor once said to me that human beings, in general, are so prone to taking things for granted that even if God were to come down and sit among them and have tea on a regular basis, they would eventually be so used to the idea, that would eventually just say “Oh, look, God’s coming for tea.”

    As far as these stories are concerned, including massacring the character of AlShareef, let it be known (at least from the perspective of Doctor Dahesh himself, as evidenced in his introduction to Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part 2) that he never intended to entertain people.

    His mandate was to educate, enlighten, deliver the good news as well as warn humanity.

    In fact, and I would have to track down that particular entry in one of his books, but I distinctly remember him writing something to the effect that he was not here to sugar coat the truth.

    For example, let's take that story of the woman who married the devil.

    That really happened. Some humans, by Divine Mandate, and based on their actions in this and other lives, merit such horrific fates. And we're told this is NOTHING to what POTENTIALLY awaits ANY one of us, "below." And frankly, it's not as if certain parts of Planet Earth are not hellish to begin with.

    And the telling of that story, and the others like it, is merely a reminder that we are in constant potential danger of falling. It's a warning sign, like the one you might see attached to a bridge overlooking the magnificent, majestic, Great Canyon.

    It is a reminder that we need to implore God Almighty for his Mercy — whenever we can. And to be fair, his books are also filled with stories that connect us with the upper, loftier worlds. But WE WILL always, as long as we live on Earth, be reminded of what potentially awaits us if we allow our spiritual fluids to attracts us down, whether by action, intent, or thought. To be fair, there are passages you'll read that will make your heart melt with joy.
    But Daheshism is not a “feel good” cult or new age movement. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: True Daheshism is not for everyone.

    My point being is that he gave us a balanced view, in keeping with the Daheshist belief that Earth is at the threshold of what we consider to be upper and lower worlds.

    In real life, Doctor Dahesh was a reserved, shy man who blushed easily. He couldn't even get himself to describe what I needed to draw in certain illustrations I did for his "The Inferno of Doctor Dahesh," so I sort of figured out what he meant and I made sure the image implied his intent without being too graphic. Still, I wouldn't show these illustrations to my grandmother!

    And for all we know, he hated every minute of the fact he had to evoke such content and cause the publication of such material.
    He certainly didn't boast about it, or even mention it as far as I can remember.

    So, let us neither beat up the straw man nor shoot the messenger.
    Last edited by Daheshville; 12-03-2011, 06:28 PM. Reason: Correting Typo.
    "Fail, to succeed."

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you so much for the detailed reply Mario. I appreciate the effort and I really learned a lot. I would like to share with you my thoughts and new questions, if you don't mind, as soon as I get a chance. I'm overloaded right now :-)

      Keep up the good work
      God bless you
      Robert

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
        Thank you so much for the detailed reply Mario. I appreciate the effort and I really learned a lot. I would like to share with you my thoughts and new questions, if you don't mind, as soon as I get a chance. I'm overloaded right now :-)

        Keep up the good work
        God bless you
        Robert
        You are more most welcome, Robert. And thank you for your kind words.
        And, please take your time — God willing, we're still be here.

        Mario
        "Fail, to succeed."

        Comment


        • #5
          Dear Mario,

          In reply, here are a few thoughts, comments and questions:

          1) In "Strange Tales and Marvelous Legends", I still don’t understand the purpose of depicting such a high level of gore and horror. For example, when the park ranger goes insane and kills Badriddeen and his son, the author could have described it by telling that the park ranger simply hit the men on their heads – without going into the horrible details of turning them into a mass of minced meat (Nihaya mor'iba p.35). In the same story, when the two brothers are hiding, the author tells us that one of them spits out pieces of his lungs: Were such details really necessary, I wonder? Do they help making the story more educating? How?

          Now you may wonder why I am making such a big deal of these issues! There are many reasons actually:

          Since these stories and scenes came supposedly from a prophet, who according to you was not perfect and pure but a normal man with all potential imperfections, some people may consider that the evil, gore, and lust depicted in the books may be the result of the author having been haunted by evil spirits or sayyals. Unless you provide solid arguments to show the noble purpose and necessity of the high detailing level of horror and lust found in the tales, people may be inclined to think that since the man was not a pure saint, and since he *seems* so fascinated with evil and fornication stories, then there may be good reasons to think that the man was evil after all and may be all the "good miracles" he performed were a disguise, and that, in fact, his entire teachings are "from the devil": "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20) How could (and why would) the pen of a messenger of God bear, depict, and publish such horrible evil?

          2) You wrote: "And nowhere, in the story, does Doctor Dahesh glamorize any of what transpired. He retold — and commented on — a true story, using as much discretion as one could muster under such circumstances". Now please tell me :-) where is the *discretion* in telling that one of the hiding brothers spat out pieces of his lungs? or that Hamita's belly made her look like a drum (pdf28 p. 98/174) or when Ashshareef insisted to drink the water used to wash the author's feet (pdf19 p. 182/189)? You said "His mandate was to educate, enlighten, deliver the good news as well as warn humanity." Please tell me, how would the story of Catherine the sinner (pdf28 p. 156/174) educate, enlighten, deliver the good news or warn humanity? Where is it mentioned that she was at least punished? And why all the *apparent* obsession and fascination with regards to lust and fornication, one may wonder?

          3) Every scholar knows the huge difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. Evilbible.com, for instance, provides massive illustration regarding the evil nature of the Old Testament's God. I don't necessarily support their opinion. What I am saying is that there is a clear difference between the "quality levels" of the spiritual teachings found in the Old and the New Testament. I hope you agree with me that the message and ethics of the New Testament are far more "elevated" than the horrors found in the Old Testament. By the way many Christians reject the Old Testament. My question is why would the style of Dr Dahesh, who came AFTER Jesus, resemble the Old Testament?

          Regarding Al Shareef (pronounced Ashshareef in Arabic, the letter sheen being a solar letter), please don't get me wrong if I tell you that I really don't care much about who this man was. What I do care about is knowing who Dr Dahesh was! Jesus, on the cross, asked his Father to forgive his ennemies and killers. What I read in Al Shareef story is (as you confirmed) a massacre of a human character! Question: How can both Jesus and Dr Dahesh be manifestations (fluids) of the same Christ? It's true that Jesus overthrew tables and seats in the temple but this cannot be compared to the massacre of Al Shareef. Jesus was crucified! and he chose to forgive... Dr Dahesh was persecuted and tortured too but the outcome seemed to be revenge: the civil war in Lebanon. Why would all the generations of Lebanese pay for the sins of the few people who persecuted Dr Dahesh? Are we dealing with divine justice here or is it an evil spell, one may ask. Again, how can they both be the same perfect Christ? Or may be Christ himself isn't perfect after all?

          4) In the "Humble Supplications" example you provide, Dr. Dahesh confesses that the horrible desires and inclinations are struggling inside him (verse 4). May we conclude that Dr Dahesh also had evil sayyals inside him? I guess yes, even Jesus was tempted... Is it possible that such evil sayyals in Dr Dahesh influenced his writing style in "Strange Tales and Marvelous Legends" which would explain the overdose of gore, lust and evil depicted? You wrote "And he certainly did not act as a so-called saint or holy man". Well, I can tell you that many Daheshists consider him as a saint and a holy man. The recent episode with Zaven is an example (the Daheshists who spoke all considered him a saint, please watch the episode again if in doubt). Anyway, to put it in simple words, anyone who claims to be a messenger of God and reportedly performs miracles such as body healing may be considered a saint and a holy man despite potential human weaknesses. The important thing is to make sure whether or not the man in question is really from God: "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect -- if that were possible." (Matthew 24:24) How can you be so sure that Dr Dahesh was a true and not a false Christ/prophet? Is it only a matter of blind faith? I hope not.

          5) Can you please give me a valid link to "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III"?

          6) In the 19th chapter of the Quran (which is called Maryam) Mary receives a visitor from God:

          "And mention in the Book, Maryam [i.e. mention, O Mohammed, in the Quran the story of Mary], when she withdrew from her family to a place facing east. She placed a screen from them; then We sent to her our angel (Jibrael, or Gabriel), and he appeared before her in the form of a man in full human form. She said:

          'I seek refuge with The Most Beneficent [God] from you, if you do fear Him.' (The angel) said:

          'I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.' She said:

          'How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?' He (the angel) said:

          'So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me: And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)', and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " (Quran 19:16-21)

          In these verses, it is described how the pious virgin Mary is visited by angel Gabriel, who appears before her in a form of a man. Not knowing who he is, she fears for herself, but he asserts to her that he is an angel, a Messenger from her Lord, and announces to her news of her miraculous conception of a son. In shock, she questions, affirming her chastity. The angel answers that such a conception, though miraculous, is easy for The Lord, all He needs to say is "Be." and it is. And that these are matters decreed by Him, for greater purposes and to the benefit of mankind.

          "And (remember) she who guarded her chastity. We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples (Quran 21:91).

          "...And Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity. And We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit. She testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)" (Quran 66:12).

          In the Quran then, it is very clear that Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus miraculously from God's spirit. On the other hand, you report that Christ in "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III" says:

          "And what beckons deep thought are these fairy tales in which all the people of Earth were carried away, and especially the Christians who are connected to me, is in that they say that I was born from the Virgin Mary, meaning that I sprang from the Holy Spirit, for what merit would I have — if only they realize — if I was born by a spiritual power and by a Heavenly Miracle, for then I would be enjoying a Godly Power that would protect me from committing [ al danaaya ] (lowly acts?), and places me over humans, and eliminate from me the aspect of being human, and then there wouldn't be any merit in my being correct and honest [...] and for calling towards... righteousness and to be steadfast in religion and fearing the last day."

          Question: When Daheshists refer to the Koran (or Quran), as they often do, do they refer to the official version accepted by all muslims? If so, how do you solve the contradiction between what's written about Christ's birth in the Koran and what you've shown from "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III" ? If not, which version of the Koran do Daheshists refer to? The paragraph from part III implies that Christ did NOT spring from the Holy Spirit. Please explain.

          7) Please forgive my curiousity.. but why was the 3rd line from the 3rd paragraph (on the scanned page) manually and digitally erased? :-) I will understand if you don't wish to answer and I respect that.

          8) You wrote: "The fact that he was a messenger of God, did not preclude him from making mistakes. He wasn't just an example to admire from afar. He was a model to follow."

          Your statement implies that he may have made mistakes; If so, could you please list them so those who wish to follow him as a model may avoid them? In simpler terms, where do you think he went wrong? As you know, biographies and stories of prophets don't tell much about their mistakes! If there are any mistakes, I think followers have the right to know what they are; are there any written or conceptual "mistakes"? I mean if the man wasn't perfect as you say, how would you expect anyone to believe that his message, writings and teachings don't include mistakes? Or may be you are saying that he wasn't perfect but all his teachings and ideas were true and perfect? How do we know for sure that the sayyal speaking through him was always the good sayyal and not one of his evil sayyals taking over in some of his writings or teachings? Please explain.

          9) You wrote: "As for being a Prophet endowed with the privilege of being the vessel for the Spirit that performed the supernatural phenomena, delivered prophecies, and made revelations: That matter is strictly administered and enforced by God". One may ask: How do you know for sure it's administered by God and not by another spiritual entity (regardless of it being good or evil)? Why don't you stay skeptical about it?

          10) You wrote: "Furthermore, we are told that any being can — through reincarnation — purify its spiritual fluids to such an extent as to be able to rejoin the realm of God." And you also mentioned how Dr Dahesh "was able to see his Spiritual Fluids — those who were lofty and those who resided in the lower worlds". Does this mean that Dr Dahesh still has to purify at least some of his fluids through reincarnation? If so, would it be possible that his fluids are still living among us today? I am asking this because as far as I know traditional knowledge preaches that prophets ascend to Heaven after they die.

          11) Regarding the story of the woman who married the devil, you say that it really happened and that "we're told this is NOTHING to what POTENTIALLY awaits ANY one of us, "below"". My question is, can you tell me of any story where Dr Dahesh tells us what awaits us "above"? It would be interesting. Thanks.

          12) What do Daheshists think regarding the concept of salvation as understood and accepted by Christians. Do you believe that Jesus actually saved the world and that Man can be saved through faith in Jesus? If not, does it imply that the mission of Jesus was incomplete so God sent Mohamet, then Dahesh? Is Dahesh the final prophet or will there be other prophets after him?

          Thank you so much for your time and attention. I really appreciate your help and understanding. I really hope Dr Dahesh is a true prophet. My mother is Lebanese after all :-)

          My deep respect to Dr Dahesh and all his followers. I'm simply sharing with you potential worries and questions that many seekers may encounter when introduced to Daheshism so I really hope I did not offend anybody. I am very sorry if I did.

          Peace to all!
          Your friend,
          Robert

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post

            1) In "Strange Tales and Marvelous Legends", I still don’t understand the purpose of depicting such a high level of gore and horror. For example, when the park ranger goes insane and kills Badriddeen and his son, the author could have described it by telling that the park ranger simply hit the men on their heads – without going into the horrible details of turning them into a mass of minced meat (Nihaya mor'iba p.35). In the same story, when the two brothers are hiding, the author tells us that one of them spits out pieces of his lungs: Were such details really necessary, I wonder? Do they help making the story more educating? How?
            I wish I could give you an answer that is based on what Doctor Dahesh might have said or written with regard to that particular issue. In my experience, nothing of the sort that he did was random. Sometimes, he revealed the reason, at other times he didn't. And unless the reason is revealed to us, is some tangible form or another, anything we might say is pure conjecture. And yes, he could have used a style that was more to your liking. But he didn't. And that's that. Neither are you obliged to like what or how he wrote, nor does he owe you or anyone any explanation. I'll say this much, however: It certainly caused you to express an opinion on the matter. And for all you know, that's part of "the plan."

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            Now you may wonder why I am making such a big deal of these issues! There are many reasons actually:

            Since these stories and scenes came supposedly from a prophet, who according to you was not perfect and pure but a normal man with all potential imperfections, some people may consider that the evil, gore, and lust depicted in the books may be the result of the author having been haunted by evil spirits or sayyals.
            Firstly, I never said "Doctor Dahesh is not pure." Instead, I said that HE never said "I am pure." I will explain it again: I don't know what "pure" is in the ABSOLUTE sense of the term. Not even so-called pure gold is 100% pure. NOTHING on EARTH IS 100% pure. And just because something can never be 100%, that does not mean they are "not pure". Nuance... Purity, in my Earthly, human dimension, is not an absolute entity.

            Again, I never said or meant to imply that Doctor Dahesh was "not pure." All I said is that HE never claimed the HE was "pure." Personally, I believe that any material being has *a degree* of purity. In other words, one is purer or less pure. Or, more or less pure.

            "More or less pure" than whom? For starters, more or less pure than their own selves. Personally, I believe that Doctor Dahesh was purer than I could ever be. Was he purer than yourself? I can't answer the question, since I don't really know you. However, to me, Doctor Dahesh is the purest individual I've met in my life, keeping in mind that I didn't meet every individual on the planet. But I've met enough people to draw that conclusion.

            And I certainly cannot make such a blanket statement considering (for example) the respect and admiration that Doctor Dahesh had for Mahatma Gandhi: Doctor Dahesh wrote that Gandhi had a Spiritual Fluid from THE CHRIST. He even referred to Gandhi as "The Prophet of the 20th Century." And he even revealed that Gandhi's killer was none other than Judas Iscariot... there is a whole paragraph on that issue, and I assure you, according to the Doctor, THE CHRIST is not pleased — at all. (Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends Vol. 3). Furthermore, at one point, I spent 3 weeks with Doctor Dahesh in close quarters. He didn't leave my sight for one minute — except to "freshen up" in the bathroom. Doctor Dahesh was an individual who sweated a lot.

            Q: How many showers he took during these 21 days?
            A: None.

            And yet, his skin always glowed, he was clean, and smelled like a newly washed baby. I know this because I was his personal assistant during his stay, and to some extent, a care giver (helping in and out of bed, preparing his meals, helping him get dressed, driving him... ).

            There was something MIRACULOUS about him. Yet, there was no VISIBLE halo I could see. But his "invisible" links to THE CHRIST, made him the most incredible, the most unique, the most special, and the most important individual I've ever met.

            Q: "Was Doctor Dahesh a pure saint?"

            A: "It all depends on what you mean by 'pure'."


            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            Unless you provide solid arguments to show the noble purpose and necessity of the high detailing level of horror and lust found in the tales, people may be inclined to think that since the man was not a pure saint, and since he *seems* so fascinated with evil and fornication stories, then there may be good reasons to think that the man was evil after all and may be all the "good miracles" he performed were a disguise, and that, in fact, his entire teachings are "from the devil": "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20) How could (and why would) the pen of a messenger of God bear, depict, and publish such horrible evil?
            So, if he *was* a "Pure Saint" then it would have been alright?

            Firstly, when did Doctor Dahesh ever appear in sheep's clothing? Are we talking about the same Doctor Dahesh whose, style and candor troubles you so much? I can see your logic in quoting Matthew if Doctor Dahesh pulled a bait and switch, or if he pulled punches, or if he pandered. On the contrary, he is a lamb in wolf's clothing.

            Secondly, he wrote 150 books. Many of which were published. Hence, there is a broad range of styles and subject. Forget you read this piece, and go and read "The Mysteries of Life and Death" or "Journey of a Musk Rose." You might change your mind. Still, if you only read one or the other, you would not get the full picture.

            The moral? Simple: "When you learn to doubt in the closest of the closest to you, you would have then begun to understand the mysteries of life." (To quote the author himself).

            And you don't have to agree with him or even like him. Just don't accuse him of not being candid, or suggest that he could be a wolf in sheep's clothing, because that would be unfair.

            And for the record, people can believe whatever they want to believe. That is their inalienable right. And in my case, I am not looking for believers and I will not pander for the sake of attracting them — on his behalf, that is.

            And so that we're clear, and to make a point further down the road: not even Miracles can SCIENTIFICALLY prove the existence of GOD.

            The reason I say that is because PROOF — in normal, everyday accepted scientific methodology — necessitates OBSERVATION. And since "not even prophets have seen or know what GOD is"... the issue is moot.

            Yet, to ME, the MIRACLES were (some sort of) *proof* (hold that thought) of God's existence and that Divine Power was the engine fueling Doctor Dahesh's mandate (and Miracles).

            Now, were they "the scientific kind of proof?" Not really ... If not scientific proof, what then? Perhaps we should call it a "Leap of Faith Proof" ... Sounds poetic, but it means absolutely nothing.

            Yet, if you are a holistic thinker, you'll know exactly what that means.

            So, and back to my point: If, indeed, not even MIRACLES can provide "SCIENTIFIC" proof of the existence of GOD, nothing can. Unless... you do a leap of faith... and I have no way to explain that to you.

            In any case, and to wrap this up, Doctor Dahesh has always been straight to the point, and in fact, he will be the first one to tell you "You have your right to believe whatever you want, as do I."

            Oh, and since when, might I ask, does nobility of purpose rely solely on the style of presentation?

            And last, but not least, who says a "good fruit" cannot be bitter or sour tasting? Does it *always* have to be sweet? This is planet Earth and not Club Med!



            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            2) You wrote: "And nowhere, in the story, does Doctor Dahesh glamorize any of what transpired. He retold — and commented on — a true story, using as much discretion as one could muster under such circumstances". Now please tell me :-) where is the *discretion* in telling that one of the hiding brothers spat out pieces of his lungs? or that Hamita's belly made her look like a drum (pdf28 p. 98/174) or when Ashshareef insisted to drink the water used to wash the author's feet (pdf19 p. 182/189)?
            The discretion is in the details he left out. Since we're a family show, I won't give you an example of what he could have written, had his intention been to make money off righting gore and erotica.

            As for Al Sharref insisting on drinking that water... Again, you weren't paying attention in class when I explained that Doctor Dahesh revealed that story AFTER Magda Haddad's suicide. Meaning, had Al Shareef truly repented, he would have been spared that fate. But, not only did he not repent, his actions would lead to tragic consequences.



            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            You said "His mandate was to educate, enlighten, deliver the good news as well as warn humanity." Please tell me, how would the story of Catherine the sinner (pdf28 p. 156/174) educate, enlighten, deliver the good news or warn humanity? Where is it mentioned that she was at least punished? And why all the *apparent* obsession and fascination with regards to lust and fornication, one may wonder?
            So, if I understand you, the problem here is not that he exposed the sort of murderess and depraved human being "Catherine the Great" — a sorry excuse for a human being before whom both big and small bowed — but that he left out the part of what happened to her Spiritual Fluids afterwards?

            As for why the "apparent" (according to you) obsession with lust and fornication...

            Simply stated... and I'm just the messenger ... lust and fornication is the root of the problem on Earth. Please locate the thread I started (somewhere on Daheshville) pertaining to our (Daheshist) version of GENESIS.


            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            3) Every scholar knows the huge difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. Evilbible.com, for instance, provides massive illustration regarding the evil nature of the Old Testament's God. I don't necessarily support their opinion. What I am saying is that there is a clear difference between the "quality levels" of the spiritual teachings found in the Old and the New Testament. I hope you agree with me that the message and ethics of the New Testament are far more "elevated" than the horrors found in the Old Testament. By the way many Christians reject the Old Testament. My question is why would the style of Dr Dahesh, who came AFTER Jesus, resemble the Old Testament?
            Yes, I agree with you that the message and ethics in the New Testament are far more "elevated" than the horrors found in the Old Testament.

            Be that as it may, what happened in the Old Testament was inevitable. Why? Because, back then, people — relatively speaking — were barbarians. Or maybe, they just merited it.

            Back in those days, if someone accidentally took someone's eye out, they might have been stoned to death. Then, the concept of "An eye for an eye" was imposed. Later, much later, a higher, more sophisticated approach was expected ("Turn the other Cheek"). Why? Because people needed a transitional stage. They couldn't just make a leap to "Turn the other Cheek," without first going through the "An eye for an eye" stage.

            And I am not just making this up. In fact, I am pulling this out of a conversation that Doctor Dahesh and I had, when he was staying with me in NY. In fact, to illustrate the point of how important those sorts of transitional stages were, he revealed to me that Jesus Christ didn't just speak to the crowd that was about to stone the woman. In fact, the Doctor said "if he just came up to the crowd and delivered a speech, they would have stoned *him* instead."

            No, according to the Doctor, what happened is that Jesus Christ, knelt and drew a five pointed star in the sand, the result of which was that each and every person in that killing mob saw a vision of what they did earlier that day (or that week, or whatever... I don't remember the exact details). And that, literally, made them drop the stones and run.

            So, same GOD, different times, different sensibilities and degrees of understanding.


            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            Regarding Al Shareef (pronounced Ashshareef in Arabic, the letter sheen being a solar letter), please don't get me wrong if I tell you that I really don't care much about who this man was. What I do care about is knowing who Dr Dahesh was! Jesus, on the cross, asked his Father to forgive his ennemies and killers. What I read in Al Shareef story is (as you confirmed) a massacre of a human character! Question: How can both Jesus and Dr Dahesh be manifestations (fluids) of the same Christ? It's true that Jesus overthrew tables and seats in the temple but this cannot be compared to the massacre of Al Shareef. Jesus was crucified! and he chose to forgive...
            I am glad you're a purist when it comes to Arabic. May I ask that we do not refer to Spiritual Fluids as "Sayyal," or worse, "sayyals" (since the correct word would be Sayyaalaat, and since we're really talking about Spiritual Fluids, the problem is compounded by the fact you would have — if you want to stay true to form — "Sayyaalaat Roo7iyyat.") Thank you in advance.

            In response would say, Jesus was Jesus and Dahesh was Dahesh. Two different beings, sent by THE CHRIST to accomplish Different missions, using different approaches. There were others whom THE CHRIST sent as well: Gandhi, Elijah, Solomon, David, Abraham, Jacob, Daniel...

            And according to Daheshism, the real Jesus was never crucified. Instead, a Spiritual Personality materialized and caused itself to be caught and crucified.

            In an case, Dahesh is the last prophet of this particular cycle...

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            Dr Dahesh was persecuted and tortured too but the outcome seemed to be revenge: the civil war in Lebanon. Why would all the generations of Lebanese pay for the sins of the few people who persecuted Dr Dahesh? Are we dealing with divine justice here or is it an evil spell, one may ask. Again, how can they both be the same perfect Christ? Or may be Christ himself isn't perfect after all?
            Firstly, THE CHRIST, as in the source of the prophets, and compared to us, is perfect.

            Secondly, and in all cases, it's always "Divine justice."

            The short answer is that is our own Spiritual Fluids who (ultimately) punish us for having brought them down through our thoughts and deeds. (Or, reward us for having brought them up. Misery loves company. So does beatitude, that's for sure).

            Hence, it is all tied into the complex interaction of Spiritual Fluids and Reincarnation.

            In essence, all the Spiritual Fluids of that period, including those who were "punished" after the Crucifixion (hold that thought)—had to return in the 20th Century and replay the events, this time Jesus is Dahesh...

            Now, behold Luke 19:41-44 41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”



            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            4) In the "Humble Supplications" example you provide, Dr. Dahesh confesses that the horrible desires and inclinations are struggling inside him (verse 4). May we conclude that Dr Dahesh also had evil sayyals inside him? I guess yes, even Jesus was tempted... Is it possible that such evil sayyals in Dr Dahesh influenced his writing style in "Strange Tales and Marvelous Legends" which would explain the overdose of gore, lust and evil depicted? You wrote "And he certainly did not act as a so-called saint or holy man". Well, I can tell you that many Daheshists consider him as a saint and a holy man. The recent episode with Zaven is an example (the Daheshists who spoke all considered him a saint, please watch the episode again if in doubt).
            For starters, I would like you to conclude that he did not act or pretend to be a so-called pure saint or holy man. For that matter, I wouldn't want you to discount his degree of "purity and saintliness" just because he happened to be modest.

            Again, and in keeping with what I said above about "purity" : evil Spiritual Fluids according to what scale of measurement?
            I would say that, compared to ME, personally, he was a saint. But, compared to HIMSELF, I am sure it varied, because, as he told me himself, our Spiritual Fluids are constantly rising and falling. Again, in relation to a relative scale of measurement. In other words, what you might consider to be normal behavior, might be horrific to me. And vice versa. And by the way, I rolled on the floor laughing when I read what the Doctor wrote at the end of that scene! But that's me. Then again, I love hearing "The Lemon Song" even thought I know it's not really about making lemonade.

            In any case, it is normal and expected for those Daheshists you speak of to refer to him as a saint, because each one of them is comparing Doctor Dahesh to him or herself.

            What is important is that HE never said that and that HE gave us the message that WE, through our hard work, diligence, and so on, can raise our Spiritual Fluids, to such a degree that WE, finally, and totally, UNITE WITH GOD.

            And, incidentally, the same applies to Jesus Christ — on that note, I recommend you read "Memoirs of Jesus the Nazarene" and you'll see how much respect, reverence, and ... love, Doctor Dahesh had for Jesus.

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            Anyway, to put it in simple words, anyone who claims to be a messenger of God and reportedly performs miracles such as body healing may be considered a saint and a holy man despite potential human weaknesses. The important thing is to make sure whether or not the man in question is really from God: "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect -- if that were possible." (Matthew 24:24) How can you be so sure that Dr Dahesh was a true and not a false Christ/prophet? Is it only a matter of blind faith? I hope not.
            The Daheshist view is clear on that point: only a true messenger of God can perform a true Miracle. (Do I need to define "true Miracle?")
            And I know that television is filled with those preachers who perform live healing... We, Daheshists, do not believe these are true. And, in fact, Doctor Dahesh spent a lot of effort debunking "magic" (not prestidigitation, which he appreciated as an art form).

            Of course, the counter argument is "how do the Daheshists know they know are not real Miracles?"

            Should that be the case, then, I would say "You're right. I don't know. However, I believe they are not."

            And considering what I said above pertaining Miracles and Scientific Proof, it then boils down, I am afraid, to faith. I don't know what blind faith is... I know I can eventually lose faith in something if I see evidence that contradicts or challenges my preconceptions... and that's not always a bad thing... but, sometimes, it can be devastating. That is why, perhaps, the Doctor wrote that a Daheshist cannot force anyone to change their belief — even if that belief involves worshipping the stone (I've written about this particular subject more than once, on Daheshville. Please feel free to search my posts. Perhaps if you search for keywords like "proselytizing").

            And even then, we wouldn't be out of the waters neither, and I'll tell you why: Many saw real Miracles and did not make the association with God. They attributed them to some sort of power Doctor Dahesh had — which is incorrect. Others, no matter what you tell them, will never believe that only a true prophet of God is permitted to be a vehicle for Miracles. In other words, they consider Doctor Dahesh as someone who was able to make the laws of nature bow to his will — which is absolutely not the case. Doctor Dahesh couldn't just snap his fingers and make a Miracle happen.

            Others, namely the young Daheshists you saw on TV, never even saw Doctor Dahesh. And yet, they believe.

            Why is that? I don't know. And I am in awe of that.

            In fact, I cannot imagine not having known the Doctor. On the other hand ( and you can read my stories on Daheshville) I was mysteriously drawn to him, simply by looking at the pictures — the arguably dark pictures — in his "Repose of Death" book, that I would secretly "borrow" from underneath my brother Chucri's mattress. I was 4 years old. Why was I fascinated? What drew me to him?

            Why did I believe the stories I would hear my brother Chucri tell our neighbor (when you're that young, and your brother is 20 years older than you, you tend to become invisible. And, unfortunately, I might have been part of stenography machine in a former life... who knows)

            In any case, it all has to do with the interaction of the Spiritual Fluids.

            Still, I eventually got to meet him. Hence, I am disqualified in terms of rendering certain opinions about blind faith or leaps of faith...

            So, in truth, I honestly don't know. In fact, and you can ask David Johnson (read "My Daheshist America") it took *me* a long time to accept he actually, truly, and deeply believed — in a manner befitting my particular vision (drawn from experience) of what belief in Daheshism was.



            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post

            5) Can you please give me a valid link to "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III"?
            I do not have such a link to share with you. I have a copy of the book, which I keep in a bank vault.


            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            6) In the 19th chapter of the Quran (which is called Maryam) Mary receives a visitor from God:

            "And mention in the Book, Maryam [i.e. mention, O Mohammed, in the Quran the story of Mary], when she withdrew from her family to a place facing east. She placed a screen from them; then We sent to her our angel (Jibrael, or Gabriel), and he appeared before her in the form of a man in full human form. She said:

            'I seek refuge with The Most Beneficent [God] from you, if you do fear Him.' (The angel) said:

            'I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.' She said:

            'How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?' He (the angel) said:

            'So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me: And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)', and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " (Quran 19:16-21)

            In these verses, it is described how the pious virgin Mary is visited by angel Gabriel, who appears before her in a form of a man. Not knowing who he is, she fears for herself, but he asserts to her that he is an angel, a Messenger from her Lord, and announces to her news of her miraculous conception of a son. In shock, she questions, affirming her chastity. The angel answers that such a conception, though miraculous, is easy for The Lord, all He needs to say is "Be." and it is. And that these are matters decreed by Him, for greater purposes and to the benefit of mankind.

            "And (remember) she who guarded her chastity. We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples (Quran 21:91).

            "...And Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity. And We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit. She testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants)" (Quran 66:12).

            In the Quran then, it is very clear that Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus miraculously from God's spirit. On the other hand, you report that Christ in "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III" says:

            "And what beckons deep thought are these fairy tales in which all the people of Earth were carried away, and especially the Christians who are connected to me, is in that they say that I was born from the Virgin Mary, meaning that I sprang from the Holy Spirit, for what merit would I have — if only they realize — if I was born by a spiritual power and by a Heavenly Miracle, for then I would be enjoying a Godly Power that would protect me from committing [ al danaaya ] (lowly acts?), and places me over humans, and eliminate from me the aspect of being human, and then there wouldn't be any merit in my being correct and honest [...] and for calling towards... righteousness and to be steadfast in religion and fearing the last day."

            Question: When Daheshists refer to the Koran (or Quran), as they often do, do they refer to the official version accepted by all muslims? If so, how do you solve the contradiction between what's written about Christ's birth in the Koran and what you've shown from "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Part III" ? If not, which version of the Koran do Daheshists refer to? The paragraph from part III implies that Christ did NOT spring from the Holy Spirit. Please explain.
            For something like that, you need to contact HUSSEIN (he's a member here and the owner of Daheshisme.org) and ask him. He posted something about this years ago.

            He confirmed what I had reported as first hand account by Doctor Dahesh (this was almost a YEAR before I would discover the PRINTED proof that backed up what I published on Daheshville, back in 2006...). In essence, and if memory serves me, he wrote that he had heard from different Daheshists — among the closest to Doctor Dahesh — that Jesus was conceived — the normal, human way — from a spiritual Fluid that had entered through Joseph. And that, in essence, Joseph (if I am not mistaken, and you'll have to ask Hussein) represents the "full human form" and that, yes, of course, there was a lofty Spiritual Fluid that had to enter Mary's womb in order for Jesus to carry Christ's Spiritual Fluid.

            And Hussein, did say that anyone who has no problem referring to Jesus as God Almighty, would equally have no qualm claiming that Mary was still a virgin. Then an another Daheshist, "MAY04" put forth the argument that Jesus might have had older brothers and younger sisters (according to Memoirs of Jesus the Nazarene). In the story, his brothers were reprimanding him for preaching (and at that point in the story, Jesus was 13 or 14). In any case, MAY04 argued that younger brothers would not have said what they said — nor the way they said it.

            In any case, would you then agree that what I showed clearly proves that Doctor Dahesh was against the notion of the Virgin Birth?

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            7) Please forgive my curiousity.. but why was the 3rd line from the 3rd paragraph (on the scanned page) manually and digitally erased? :-) I will understand if you don't wish to answer and I respect that.
            It was digitally erased after scanning.

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            8) You wrote: "The fact that he was a messenger of God, did not preclude him from making mistakes. He wasn't just an example to admire from afar. He was a model to follow."

            Your statement implies that he may have made mistakes; If so, could you please list them so those who wish to follow him as a model may avoid them?

            In simpler terms, where do you think he went wrong? As you know, biographies and stories of prophets don't tell much about their mistakes! If there are any mistakes, I think followers have the right to know what they are; are there any written or conceptual "mistakes"? I mean if the man wasn't perfect as you say, how would you expect anyone to believe that his message, writings and teachings don't include mistakes? Or may be you are saying that he wasn't perfect but all his teachings and ideas were true and perfect? How do we know for sure that the sayyal speaking through him was always the good sayyal and not one of his evil sayyals taking over in some of his writings or teachings? Please explain.
            Once again, *I* never said "Doctor Dahesh was not perfect." ... HE might have said it, or implied. Not me. And what might be utter lack of perfection to him, might be 100% perfection to me. Again, RELATIVITY.

            In any case, we would need to refer to his own writings. He wrote a lot and was, as you can imagine, very candid.

            I know the late Salim Kumbargi/Onbargi wrote about the incident when the Doctor walked for a long time, unprotected, under the hot sun and nearly died. The gist of it was that he did something he wasn't supposed to do, and nearly died. Also, he came that close to ending his own life... I mean, THAT close... when a vision appeared before him... read "Innocent in Chains, the Notes." Keep in mind, he was subjected to horrific conditions...

            Plus... plus... many "so called" Daheshists turned their backs on him, while others, such as Marie Haddad, Halim Dammous and other had to rot in Jail.

            But you know, when I read that my Beloved Guiding Prophet was pushed to the point where HE almost ended his own life, I tremble...

            Robert, your question is intelligent. But, keep in mind that I was one of the three young Daheshists who helped the morticians embalm his body (the process two (?) or three hours). My point: there are certain subjects I would rather not get into.

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            9) You wrote: "As for being a Prophet endowed with the privilege of being the vessel for the Spirit that performed the supernatural phenomena, delivered prophecies, and made revelations: That matter is strictly administered and enforced by God". One may ask: How do you know for sure it's administered by God and not by another spiritual entity (regardless of it being good or evil)? Why don't you stay skeptical about it?
            Firstly, When was I ever skeptical about it?

            I might have behaved in a manner not befitting the title of "Daheshist" (which was bestowed upon me by Doctor Dahesh). But even in my darkest moments, I knew what I was missing and where I needed to get back to. And in that sense, I openly declare I am blessed. And is my faith tested everyday? You bet. Well, maybe not every day, but you get the idea.

            Secondly, and there is no two ways about it, at one point you must make a choice: in or out, on or off, up or down... Believe or not believe... God does not like it when we're lukewarm.

            Revelation 3:16 "So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            10) You wrote: "Furthermore, we are told that any being can — through reincarnation — purify its spiritual fluids to such an extent as to be able to rejoin the realm of God." And you also mentioned how Dr Dahesh "was able to see his Spiritual Fluids — those who were lofty and those who resided in the lower worlds". Does this mean that Dr Dahesh still has to purify at least some of his fluids through reincarnation? If so, would it be possible that his fluids are still living among us today? I am asking this because as far as I know traditional knowledge preaches that prophets ascend to Heaven after they die.
            Very possible. Well, you have degrees of separation. In other words, you must take it as a given that a good number of Daheshists (and non Daheshists) had some sort of connection (via Spiritual Fluids) with Doctor Dahesh. Khalil Gibran, for example, was the forerunner of Doctor Dahesh (in fact, many of his other writings will remind you of Gibran's style). That aside, I have no problem accepting that, one way or the other, his Spiritual Fluids, are working via dedicated individuals, many of whom we might never even hear about — may they be scientists, medical doctors, philanthropists, and even world leaders... why not!)

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            11) Regarding the story of the woman who married the devil, you say that it really happened and that "we're told this is NOTHING to what POTENTIALLY awaits ANY one of us, "below"". My question is, can you tell me of any story where Dr Dahesh tells us what awaits us "above"? It would be interesting. Thanks.
            There are several stories in the books you downloaded (The Secrets of Life and Death) for example. Plus a ton of material we might never see in our lifetime. Then again, we might.


            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            12) What do Daheshists think regarding the concept of salvation as understood and accepted by Christians. Do you believe that Jesus actually saved the world and that Man can be saved through faith in Jesus? If not, does it imply that the mission of Jesus was incomplete so God sent Mohamet, then Dahesh? Is Dahesh the final prophet or will there be other prophets after him?
            Well, Jesus certainly endured hardship in order to absorb a great deal of what would have otherwise befallen humanity. Same with Mahomet and Doctor Dahesh. The latter suddenly started to have one terrible accident after the other during the civil war and suffered greatly all the way to his last breath. That was by choice. But faith alone cannot erase a debt that is owed. In other words, if I commit an evil act, and regardless of how horrible I feel and how many prayers I might say, or others might say on my behalf, I will always be at the mercy of God and I (or perhaps someone I love dearly) must pay the debt...So, let's say I did something I KNOW someone with MY level of understanding (I said "understanding" and not "degree") should not have done. In that case, I should not be surprised if I have to wander the proverbial desert for 10, 20, 30 years before I purge CERTAIN sins of mine, in THIS LIFETIME. And here is where faith comes in: I have to thank God, everyday, for HIS mercy and for giving me the opportunity to purge my mistake...

            Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
            Thank you so much for your time and attention. I really appreciate your help and understanding. I really hope Dr Dahesh is a true prophet. My mother is Lebanese after all :-)

            My deep respect to Dr Dahesh and all his followers. I'm simply sharing with you potential worries and questions that many seekers may encounter when introduced to Daheshism so I really hope I did not offend anybody. I am very sorry if I did.

            Peace to all!
            Your friend,
            Robert
            My pleasure Robert. I hope I helped.
            Last edited by Daheshville; 12-15-2011, 01:34 AM. Reason: Typos
            "Fail, to succeed."

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for your reply Mario. It's always a great challenge to give objective answers when you are so subjectively involved. I understand how delicate some issues can be and I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience my questions or comments may have caused you. Therefore, for the sake of a better understanding of the discussed issues, I suggest we handle one or two points at a time, and try to stay as focused as possible until the issues in hand are clear before moving forward. I hope you don't mind.

              One point I would like to clear out first is the Koran question. The facts first:

              1) Doctor Dahesh and many Daheshists often cited and referred to verses from the Koran on different occasions.

              2) The Koran clearly states in many verses (see my earlier post) that Jesus was born from the Spirit of God and that Mary was virgin.

              3) Doctor Dahesh writings (from the scanned page you showed) and your comments imply that Jesus was born normally from Joseph and Mary.

              Given the three facts stated above, which of the following conclusions is correct?

              a) When Daheshists refer to the Koran, they don't actually refer to the publicly known version.

              b) Daheshists believe that some verses in the publicly known Koran are incorrect.

              c) ???

              Because Daheshism calls for the unity of all revealed religions and accepts their respective official Books, such contradictions are unacceptable. Daheshists are free to believe what they want regarding the conception and birth of Jesus but since they refer to and cite from the Koran they must accept it in its entirety or else offer a valid explanation.

              I address this question to you and HUSSEIN and I will contact him on Daheshisme.org too if necessary.

              I believe that through our discussions here, we are shedding more light on a great topic. There is nothing personal as far as I am concerned. On the contrary, if I wasn't deeply impressed by the legacy of this great man named Doctor Dahesh, I wouldn’t be here in the first place; but as he wisely advised: "When you learn to doubt in the closest of the closest to you, you would have then begun to understand the mysteries of life." This is EXACTLY what I am doing here and I invite YOU to DOUBT TOO. We (YOU+I+READERS) would know the Doctor even better IMHO. Maybe by never calling himself a saint as you say, he intentionally left the door open for doubt. So don't get upset by my words.

              I am part of the plan too ;-)

              Mario, there's a LOT of issues in your last reply which I would like to discuss with you, issue by issue, calmly and easily. Would you prefer tea or coffee? Or may be a lemonade? :-)

              It's a real honor and a privilege indeed to be able to communicate with someone like you; someone who actually knew and lived with Doctor Dahesh! Wow! Thank you Mario!

              Please bear with me. I am a scientist... and I play the guitar :-)

              Peace
              Robert

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                Thank you for your reply Mario. It's always a great challenge to give objective answers when you are so subjectively involved. I understand how delicate some issues can be and I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience my questions or comments may have caused you. Therefore, for the sake of a better understanding of the discussed issues, I suggest we handle one or two points at a time, and try to stay as focused as possible until the issues in hand are clear before moving forward. I hope you don't mind.
                My pleasure Robert and I don't mind at all.

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                1) Doctor Dahesh and many Daheshists often cited and referred to verses from the Koran on different occasions.
                Although I personally don't know how many times exactly, for example, Doctor Dahesh cited verses from the Koran (in addition to the Old and New Testament) I would say it is true. And the citations I have seen — in general — would be used order to support what the Doctor referred to as "our Theory of Reincarnation." Which is why, I took the liberty of calling it "The Daheshist Theory of Reincarnation."

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                2) The Koran clearly states in many verses (see my earlier post) that Jesus was born from the Spirit of God and that Mary was virgin.
                Based on what you show above, I would say the Koran agrees with the New Testament. And in that sense, these sections should both incense THE CHRIST.

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                3) Doctor Dahesh writings (from the scanned page you showed) and your comments imply that Jesus was born normally from Joseph and Mary.
                Putting aside what I heard the Doctor say, what he wrote does more than "imply." In fact, I'd say that the the only thing missing was the target bull's eye.

                But I see what you mean, please go on...


                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                Given the three facts stated above, which of the following conclusions is correct?
                You mean the three "exhibits" stated above: since they cannot all be facts, if any one of them is not truthful — unless two or more versions of reality can exist in our macro-dimension (incidentally, is that where we're headed with this? Just wondering...That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer. )

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                a) When Daheshists refer to the Koran, they don't actually refer to the publicly known version.
                Well, if that is the case, then you're suggesting that there is a hidden truth that only a few know. Hence, a cover up.

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                b) Daheshists believe that some verses in the publicly known Koran are incorrect.
                I would say that this would be the only logical conclusion. The same would apply to some parts of the Bible. In any case, I choose "b." Although, I would say that not all Daheshists would agree with me.

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                c) ???
                Nah, you can park it here. We're good!


                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                Because Daheshism calls for the unity of all revealed religions and accepts their respective official Books, such contradictions are unacceptable. Daheshists are free to believe what they want regarding the conception and birth of Jesus but since they refer to and cite from the Koran they must accept it in its entirety or else offer a valid explanation.
                First of all, even in each distinct "revealed religion" you have disagreements. The Baptists versus the Catholics, the Shi'a versus the Sunnis, and so on. So the notion of nullification based on any degree of contradiction or disagreement is not valid.

                Secondly, are the theories of Special and General Relativity (and some of still-to-be-proven implications of the latter) to be rejected because we now have confirmation that Albert Einstein was 100% wrong when (and based on the Michelson-Morley experiment) he built everything on the belief that nothing can travel than the speed of light?

                If a document has been altered(for whatever reason), you can either choose to accept it or correct the alteration. You don't just toss the whole thing out. That's like throwing a case out based on a technicality.

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                I address this question to you and HUSSEIN and I will contact him on Daheshisme.org too if necessary.
                Hussein hasn't been in Daheshville in years. You'd have to contact him via Daheshisme.org (I am not sure his contact info on Daheshville is up-to-date).


                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                I believe that through our discussions here, we are shedding more light on a great topic. There is nothing personal as far as I am concerned. On the contrary, if I wasn't deeply impressed by the legacy of this great man named Doctor Dahesh, I wouldn’t be here in the first place; but as he wisely advised: "When you learn to doubt in the closest of the closest to you, you would have then begun to understand the mysteries of life." This is EXACTLY what I am doing here and I invite YOU to DOUBT TOO. We (YOU+I+READERS) would know the Doctor even better IMHO. Maybe by never calling himself a saint as you say, he intentionally left the door open for doubt. So don't get upset by my words.
                Robert, I doubt (in my self, because my self is the closest thing to me) every chance I get. And still, I still manage to make a mess of things. I don't mean to brag...

                And I'm not upset. I was a little frustrated a times, and that's a knee-jerk reaction to some of what transpired in the past — a long time before your arrival.

                You and I know what you mean when you quote me loosely.

                We're on the same wavelength.

                In other words, if we were just discussing the matter in private, I wouldn't be raising all these flags.

                But the caveat is that this is Daheshville... I'll leave it up to your sense of adventure to travel back in time and review some of the battles that took place here.

                In the meantime, because this is Daheshville, we need to weigh every word as much as we can, because we have become a frame of reference. And you're a valuable contributor — Daheshist or otherwise. Hence, and to be clear, there are no expectations as far as that issue is concerned.

                Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                I am part of the plan too ;-)

                Mario, there's a LOT of issues in your last reply which I would like to discuss with you, issue by issue, calmly and easily. Would you prefer tea or coffee? Or may be a lemonade? :-)

                It's a real honor and a privilege indeed to be able to communicate with someone like you; someone who actually knew and lived with Doctor Dahesh! Wow! Thank you Mario!

                Please bear with me. I am a scientist... and I play the guitar :-)

                Peace
                Robert
                I should perhaps ask the same of you, given my first diploma was in mathematics ... and I play the guitar, as well. I still can't figure out how, you scientists, can just chuck away the negative value of the equation as if it never existed!

                Thank you, Robert. That truly means a lot to me. But with your permission, and only because I'd hate to disappoint you, I'll take a rain check on your very generous compliment... Let's see how you feel by the time we make it the other side. And there are so many sides to cross after we're done with this one.
                "Fail, to succeed."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  You mean the three "exhibits" stated above: since they cannot all be facts, if any one of them is not truthful
                  Which one do you think is not truthful?

                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  I would say that this would be the only logical conclusion. The same would apply to some parts of the Bible. In any case, I choose "b." Although, I would say that not all Daheshists would agree with me.
                  I was hoping to have the official answer of the Daheshist Religion. Are you saying that some Daheshists accept the Koran in its entirety while others consider some verses of the Koran to be falsified? Did the Doctor mention anything about the authenticity of the Koran (the public version everyone knows)? How many high authorities do you have in your religion and how do you solve or manage the different views? Are you telling me (I am a newbie here) that you (Daheshists) don’t have a clear and final (dogmatic) answer to whether you consider the publicly known Koran and Gospels to be entirely true or partially incorrect? Since Daheshists publicly refer to verses from the Koran and the Gospels, they certainly consider the cited verses as true. Is there a book or a document that lists those verses from the Koran and the Gospels (and other holy books) which Daheshists believe are incorrect (falsified)? Don’t you think this is crucial for any Christian and/or Muslim who is introduced to Daheshism?

                  Who is THE authority today when it comes to Daheshist dogma? I need to know the official answer… and by “I”, I mean… THE WORLD.

                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  First of all, even in each distinct "revealed religion" you have disagreements. The Baptists versus the Catholics, the Shi'a versus the Sunnis, and so on. So the notion of nullification based on any degree of contradiction or disagreement is not valid.
                  Sure but you have at least the Baptists versus the Catholics, the Shi'a versus the Sunnis, and so on. Could you please enumerate the different currents/sects/views in Daheshism and who is the highest authority (or reference) in each group?

                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  Secondly, are the theories of Special and General Relativity (and some of still-to-be-proven implications of the latter) to be rejected because we now have confirmation that Albert Einstein was 100% wrong when (and based on the Michelson-Morley experiment) he built everything on the belief that nothing can travel than the speed of light?
                  I would say that the theories should be seriously revised, yes. Rejected? I don’t think so. We are still using a lot of good old Newton laws, you know. Ceci dit, it’s still early to say that Einstein was wrong. More tests are needed to confirm that the speed of light was indeed exceeded... IMHO, the speed of light IS absolute and the results of the Gran Sasso National Laboratory and CERN experiments are due to measurement inaccuracies caused by subtle factors not yet clarified. I recommend patience and prudence here…

                  But are you comparing the word of God, dogma and teachings of the prophets to some scientific theory which may be proven wrong or inaccurate sooner or later? Mario, you can’t say that you accept a religion but you reject its creed (holy books) unless you redefine that religion and its creed; if Daheshism does not accept the official religious books as they are, Daheshism is required to redefine precisely what’s right and what’s wrong in these books. Don’t you agree? I mean why would the verses about the birth of Jesus be inaccurate and not the verses referred to by Doctor Dahesh and his followers? Fair question, don’t you think? Maybe you (Mario) don’t know, and that would be OK; but I expect some Daheshist authority, some day, to deliver the definitive answers to the world.

                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  If a document has been altered(for whatever reason), you can either choose to accept it or correct the alteration. You don't just toss the whole thing out. That's like throwing a case out based on a technicality.
                  Sure but will you, Daheshists, correct it? I don’t think it’s fair to take the verses that suit you and flag other verses as inaccurate simply because they are incompatible with your creed – which curiously happens to preach the acceptance of all religions. You want the Koran or other books to be (partially) incorrect? Fine. Now some Daheshists, please separate the wheat from the chaff and tell us which verses are OK and which are not!

                  I think you owe it to the world.

                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  I should perhaps ask the same of you, given my first diploma was in mathematics ... and I play the guitar, as well. I still can't figure out how, you scientists, can just chuck away the negative value of the equation as if it never existed!
                  You’re right. You got it

                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  Let's see how you feel by the time we make it the other side. And there are so many sides to cross after we're done with this one.
                  I am not sure “I” will be the same once we get to the other side. This also reminds me of a song named “Break on through to the other side” by the Doors, one of my favorite bands!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SoulWings View Post

                    Sure but you have at least the Baptists versus the Catholics, the Shi'a versus the Sunnis, and so on. Could you please enumerate the different currents/sects/views in Daheshism and who is the highest authority (or reference) in each group?
                    Cher Robert,

                    Tout d'abord, permettez-moi de vous dire que nous sommes ravis de vous compter parmi nous. Je tiens également à vous remercier pour vos interventions très intéressantes et pour vos questions pertinentes qui nous offrent l'occasion d'aborder des sujets qui pourront ainsi éclairer bon nombre de lecteurs.

                    Pour revenir à votre question - bien qu'elle s'adresse plus précisément à Mario - vous me permettrez d'interjeter ces quelques mots en français (en espérant que vous pouvez lire cette langue).

                    Je dirais qu'il y a *nous* et les autres !

                    Et que la plus haute autorité est donc notre frère Mario qui a vécu longtemps auprès du Docteur et qui a su en tirer profit d'une façon que je n'ai connue chez aucune autre personne.

                    Il possède notamment des qualités humaines qui lui permettent de faire preuve de beaucoup de finesse, de raffinement et de psychologie. Il est intrinsèquement et profondément gentil, sait faire preuve d'une grande patience dans la façon dont il traite avec autrui. Pour moi, ces qualités sont essentielles et en cela, je peux affirmer que c'est "notre point de repère et la meilleure référence Daheshiste" que je connaisse !

                    Sommes-nous les plus représentatifs du Daheshisme ?

                    Certainement pas en terme de nombre mais, étant des libres penseurs, n'ayant pas peur de nos opinions, ni de livrer la vérité Daheshiste telle que nous l'avons comprise et vécue depuis notre plus tendre enfance, nous nous sommes accordés le droit de livrer ce que nous savons avec la plus grande sincérité. Ceci présente ses inconvénients, mais peu importe, car notre but premier est d'honorer le Docteur et, faisant partie des derniers témoins vivants, nous nous devons de laisser cet héritage au monde avant qu'il ne soit trop tard.

                    Donc oui, nous sommes les ex-jeunes - et toujours rebelles - Daheshistes, qui continueront à s'exprimer haut et fort jusqu'au bout. C'est bien la moindre des choses que nous puissions faire quand on a connu Le Docteur et quand on regarde sa vie et *ce* qu'il a dû endurer pour livrer sa Divine Mission à la Terre.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Which one do you think is not truthful?
                      Are we talking about the whole Koran? If yes, then I can't answer that question. If you are asking me to choose between page 86 of "Strange Tales and Wondrous Legends, Vol. 3" and these translations you exhibited — you being the translator — then, I choose Dahesh's version.


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      I was hoping to have the official answer of the Daheshist Religion. Are you saying that some Daheshists accept the Koran in its entirety while others consider some verses of the Koran to be falsified?
                      Well, that's the interesting thing, and for that, you'll need to ask Hussein, and I'll tell you why in a minute, (about the time it might take you to read this reply of his from 2006). You'll note that he quotes the exact verse from the Koran. And yet, he seems to draw a diametrically opposing interpretation to yours. Wouldn't you say? So, why not ask him?


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Did the Doctor mention anything about the authenticity of the Koran (the public version everyone knows)?
                      I know that Doctor Dahesh believed in both the Koran and the Bible. I will show you an excerpt from Loutfi Radwan's book (the same one the Doctor gave me as a gift back in the day).







                      Now, I've heard Doctor Dahesh one time recount the incident in which either he was refused entry to some Arab country or caused his books to be banned (I don't remember which) due to the fact he made a passing comment about the "Jin." I think it might have been in one of his travel books and he commented on something regarding the belief in the "Jin. " He was making some remark about airplanes and technology, ... I don't have the book... Anyway, judging from what I remember, it's possible that the Doctor might have disagreed with some particular element in the Koran, and on that basis, he was refused entry OR that the books were banned.

                      To us, here, in Daheshville, the fact that there are aspects of the Koran and the Bible that he did not agree with does not mean Doctor Dahesh did not believe in Jesus or Mahomet, or that the whole of the holy texts is to be rejected.

                      Neither does it mean that the KORAN is wrong. In fact, the Koran got 2 out of three 3 right! Who knows, maybe, back in the day, the Muslim leaders (to placate matters) added the bit about the virgin birth, for peace's sake. Obviously, that was not enough.

                      So, it is very possible that someone might have altered parts of them along the way. And incidentally: does the fact the Koran negates what the New Testament says about the crucifixion of Jesus disqualify the whole Koran, Islam, and Mahomet?

                      Furthermore, does the fact the Koran refer to Jesus as a prophet and not GOD negate it as well?

                      The Koran can agree with the New Testament all it wants regarding the Virgin Birth (based on your exhibits), nevertheless, it still (as far the Christians are concerned) presents totally false versions of reality as far what the crucifixion and Jesus' true identity — which, again, agrees with Daheshism.


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      How many high authorities do you have in your religion and how do you solve or manage the different views?
                      As far as I am concerned, the only authority is Doctor Dahesh. We have scholars. But, in terms of "leaders"... (if that's what you mean)? ... At this juncture, I would say none. Sure, I'm the "biggest" guy in Daheshville, and that's just going by weight... but I digress... Let me refer you to that dream that "BOXFOX" (who's first name is "Ali") wrote about on Daheshville (in which he saw Doctor Dahesh): Everything we need to know is in his books. And on that front... (Sorry, I need to do this little station break) I was curious about something, so I checked a couple of dates... Boxfox saw his dream on 10/27/2008. And I saw this dream 5 months earlier on 6/3/2008...(edited to spare some people's feelings... oh, the irony... )





                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Are you telling me (I am a newbie here) that you (Daheshists) don’t have a clear and final (dogmatic) answer to whether you consider the publicly known Koran and Gospels to be entirely true or partially incorrect?
                      "Entirely?" Well, like I said above, the Koran (correctly) contradicts the Gospels on certain issues: Christians believe that Jesus is God. The Muslims reject that. Christians believe that the real Jesus died on the cross. The Muslims reject that as well.

                      Should every nook and cranny of the Koran and Gospels be true, or else suffer disqualification?

                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Since Daheshists publicly refer to verses from the Koran and the Gospels, they certainly consider the cited verses as true. Is there a book or a document that lists those verses from the Koran and the Gospels (and other holy books) which Daheshists believe are incorrect (falsified)? Don’t you think this is crucial for any Christian and/or Muslim who is introduced to Daheshism?
                      Yes, I think such a document would be important. Unfortunately, I can't answer the question. You'll need to address that question to the Daheshist Publishing Company.

                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Who is THE authority today when it comes to Daheshist dogma? I need to know the official answer… and by “I”, I mean… THE WORLD.
                      Who is THE authority today? And if by authority, you mean ... a walking (or limping — hey, some of us are getting old) encyclopedia... that sort of thing (?)... Well... If my dreams involving Doctor Dahesh (and I've been blessed with over 136 ... ) mean anything, I would say it would be Chucri Chakkour. From the looks of it, he appeared in many of these dreams. And in one dream in particular, the Doctor instructed me to document his work. I could cite the other dreams in which he gives me specific instructions, but... with what Sandrine posted above, it might come across as totally self-serving. I need to leave some wiggle room.

                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Sure but you have at least the Baptists versus the Catholics, the Shi'a versus the Sunnis, and so on. Could you please enumerate the different currents/sects/views in Daheshism and who is the highest authority (or reference) in each group?
                      Yes and I was showing that not even the particular "established" religions can agree. And based on that alone, we can't say that there is any one particular official version of any religion.

                      And, we're trying to PREVENT that from happening to DAHESHISM.

                      That being said...

                      The only Daheshism I know and recognize is the Daheshism of Doctor Dahesh. And for that, we would need to study and interpret his writings (because, sometimes, he does use metaphors and allegories... For example, when he refers to the "Six Goddesses" he is referring to the "Six Personalities." ). Plus, talking to the witnesses doesn't hurt either, nor is listening to his recordings in which he tells his own stories.


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      But are you comparing the word of God, dogma and teachings of the prophets to some scientific theory which may be proven wrong or inaccurate sooner or later? Mario, you can’t say that you accept a religion but you reject its creed (holy books) unless you redefine that religion and its creed; if Daheshism does not accept the official religious books as they are, Daheshism is required to redefine precisely what’s right and what’s wrong in these books. Don’t you agree? I mean why would the verses about the birth of Jesus be inaccurate and not the verses referred to by Doctor Dahesh and his followers? Fair question, don’t you think? Maybe you (Mario) don’t know, and that would be OK; but I expect some Daheshist authority, some day, to deliver the definitive answers to the world.
                      If you base the validity of GOD's word on any document written by human hands, you run the risk of deviation. I don't believe that the Gospels and Koran, as human, tangible objects, are 100% correct, anymore I believe that all "religious leaders" are honest. I believe there are omissions and mistakes. Beyond this business of the virgin birth, the crucifixion, and Jesus' divine nature (as in Jesus = Almighty God), I don't know what else. Oh, this business about the Jin... But, let's not count that until we see the actual pages from the book he wrote. If I knew of any other element, I would share it with you.

                      But, it might interest you to know that, yet, in another dream, the Doctor instructed me to "study the book of Islamic Laws." Which is why, incidentally, we opened a special section on Daheshville dedicated to Islamic Law.

                      You have to understand that to us, he is linked to both Jesus and Mahomet.


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      Sure but will you, Daheshists, correct it? I don’t think it’s fair to take the verses that suit you and flag other verses as inaccurate simply because they are incompatible with your creed – which curiously happens to preach the acceptance of all religions. You want the Koran or other books to be (partially) incorrect? Fine. Now some Daheshists, please separate the wheat from the chaff and tell us which verses are OK and which are not!
                      I know we're doing our part. And there is so much we can do.

                      And on that front, please know that sooner or later, we might close Daheshville as a forum, and I'll tell you why I am saying that:

                      On July 2, 2011, I dreamed "The Daheshists" were preventing me from taking part in any "Photo" session (to document who the Daheshists were). Any attempt on my part to contribute was summarily erased. Basically, (so and and so) wanted to make sure I didn't exist. (And oddly enough, just the other week, someone removed all our links from Wikipedia).

                      But then, in the dream, it would be revealed to me that it was the Doctor who was making it all happen. In other words, that he was responsible for that. That he caused that. And then I learn why... And the Doctor, then appeared to me and the dream continues... and transpires afterwards in that dream (and others like it) began to give me the hint that maybe it's time to pull back... In the sense that our work here is done.


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      I think you owe it to the world.
                      Doctor Dahesh used to always say "Do your best and leave the rest to God." And when you'd tell him that so and so won't listen to reason, he would say "Did you do your part? If yes, then, that's all you can do."
                      We tried. That's all I can say...


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      You’re right. You got it
                      I got something right, at least


                      Originally posted by SoulWings View Post
                      I am not sure “I” will be the same once we get to the other side. This also reminds me of a song named “Break on through to the other side” by the Doors, one of my favorite bands!
                      I actually came this close to quoting Jim Morrison. But then I thought that since we're not (yet) breaking on through anything — we're just crossing the river — why not enjoy the scenery.
                      "Fail, to succeed."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mario View Post

                        Who is THE authority today? And if by authority, you mean ... a walking (or limping — hey, some of us are getting old) encyclopedia... that sort of thing (?)... Well... If my dreams involving Doctor Dahesh (and I've been blessed with over 136 ... ) mean anything, I would say it would be Chucri Chakkour. From the looks of it, he appeared in many of these dreams. And in one dream in particular, the Doctor instructed me to document his work. I could cite the other dreams in which he gives me specific instructions, but... with what Sandrine posted above, it might come across as totally self-serving. I need to leave some wiggle room.
                        Etant donné que je travaille sur le livre des rêves de Mario, je tiens à clarifier un point : Dans ce rêve en particulier, et pour être vraiment précis, "Le Docteur a demandé à Mario d'organiser et de cataloguer le travail de Chucri". Ceci n'est pas tout à fait la même chose que de "documenter" son travail comme Mario l'a exprimé ci-dessus en utilisant un verbe inadéquat.

                        J'ajouterais, qu'en effet Chucri est "une mine d'or" pour le Daheshisme dans le sens où il l'a étudié toute sa vie en relation avec les autres religions ou philosophies. Il a mis en pratique les principes Daheshistes dans sa propre existence qu'il a dédiée à sa foi.

                        Il possède une grande connaissance en la matière, une analyse très profonde et poussée, que l'on souhaiterait à certains qui traitent de notre spiritualité.

                        C'est un homme qui m'a appris beaucoup sur Le Docteur et le Daheshisme lorsque j'étais plus jeune, et je le remercie du fond du cœur pour cela.

                        Le rêve de Mario n'est donc pas étonnant. C'est l'éminence grise du Daheshisme qui selon moi, devrait faire connaître au grand public le fruit de ses années d'étude sur le sujet.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sandrine View Post
                          Etant donné que je travaille sur le livre des rêves de Mario, je tiens à clarifier un point : Dans ce rêve en particulier, et pour être vraiment précis, "Le Docteur a demandé à Mario d'organiser et de cataloguer le travail de Chucri". Ceci n'est pas tout à fait la même chose que de "documenter" son travail comme Mario l'a exprimé ci-dessus en utilisant un verbe inadéquat.
                          Thank you, Sandrine. I had a feeling I might have misquoted myself. I sifted through the slideshow you did out of all the pages and loose notes (sorry), and I found the actual page. (this appears to be from the red notebook that I left in France). I see there is a typo. In my defense, these are written shortly after I fumble and stumble out of bed. These are perhaps meaningless dreams. Nevertheless, I choose to take them seriously.


                          "Fail, to succeed."

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                          • #14
                            Chère Sandrine,

                            Je vous remercie beaucoup et j'admire vraiment votre sincérité et votre courage. J'ai un profond respect pour vous, croyez-moi. N'ayant pas eu l'honneur et l'occasion de le rencontrer personnellement, le Docteur Dahesh m'a toutefois toujours fasciné et intrigué; d'ailleurs, quel chercheur sincère ne le serait pas devant un tel phénomène? Durant mes recherches, plusieurs interrogations que je considère fondamentales se sont dressées sur mon chemin. Le vent joyeux de mon mystérieux destin m'a conduit ici; et j'ai rencontré Mario et maintenant Sandrine. Quelle joie

                            Chère Sandrine, je suis persuadé que les questions que nous discutons ensemble ici seront tôt ou tard posées par des curieux et des adeptes. Soyez rassurée que l'avocat du diable que je suis s'avèrera le meilleur ami de votre cause qui chérie la lumière et détèste les ténèbres. Que la Vérité soit claire et nette, tel est le but de mon enquête -- et le votre je crois.

                            Ceci dit, votre amour, courage et sincérité vis à vis de votre héritage spirituel ne seront pas hélas suffisants pour le répandre à toute l'humanité! A moins que vous ne polissiez votre doctrine (mise à part votre admirable Foi) et renforciez ses remparts par des réponses logiques et définitives, vous aurez beaucoup de mal à "épouser" le monde; car, voyez-vous, pour qu'une religion "épouse" le monde, il faut "qu'elle se décide" au préalable... c'est vital!

                            La diversité dans l'unité n'étant pas une faille mais plutôt une grâce, ceci nécessite et suppose néanmoins que les diverses pierres angulaires soient suffisamment solides pour accueillir et soutenir l'édifice futur. Comme vous avez admirablement eu le courage de défendre votre Foi et son fondateur, je prie le Tout Puissant que vous ayez le même courage pour édifier une religion universelle qui soit institutionelle, formelle, autoritaire , et infaillible à toute épreuve -- à l'instar des grandes branches religieuses (catholique, orthodoxe, sunnite, etc.)

                            A mon humble avis, chère Sandrine, je pense qu'il est de l'urgent intérêt de tout le monde et des disciples du Docteur Dahesh en particulier, que ces derniers entament un grand effort commun pour établir les fondations universelles et définitives de vos dogmes religieux. Il est inconcevable qu'une question aussi essentielle que l'acceptation ou non de l'intégralité du Coran par les Daheshistes ne soit pas déjà minutieusement établie et élucidée.

                            A cette phase là de la conception de votre religion, je crains que la multiplicité des opinions sur des questions aussi fondamentales ne soit un alarmant signe de malformation, Grand Dieu, non!

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                            • #15
                              A Sandrine et Mario:

                              Et Monsieur Chucri, il est toujours parmi nous? Pourrais-je le contacter vous croyez??

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