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  • Washington Post "Conversation on Religion"

    I stumbled across the following letter to the Washington Post from former US President Jimmy Carter. I am uncertain whether he was trying to promote one of his books or whether he was truely trying to make a point. But I noticed that he got a response from a person I thought might be of interest to Daheshest. The link is:

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...d_mideast.html

    The responding person was Mounir Murad. There also were some responses from others who I believe had true interests in peace in Lebabnon.

    Please try to disregard some of the idiotic replys from some of my less intelligent countrymen. Not everyone is born with a fair sense of compassion.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ronschaum View Post
    The link is:

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...d_mideast.html

    The responding person was Mounir Murad. There also were some responses from others who I believe had true interests in peace in Lebabnon.
    I wonder why—then—he wrote in his book "Daheshism and the Journey of Life" the following (under the "Summary of the Basic Daheshist Principles.")

    "Churches, mosques, synagogues, and other so-called 'houses of prayer' are not true to the religions they claim to represent, and many of them are run by deceitful and evil people."

    Thus, basically, declaring that all, "so-called" houses of prayer to be unfit. That statement is one heck of a bridge for peace...
    Last edited by Mario; 05-25-2007, 01:27 PM.
    "Fail, to succeed."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mario View Post
      I wonder why—then—he wrote in his book "Daheshism and the Journey of Life" the following (under the "Summary of the Basic Daheshist Principles.")

      "Churches, mosques, synagogues, and other so-called 'houses of prayer' are not true to the religions they claim to represent, and many of them are run by deceitful and evil people."

      Thus, basically, declaring that all, "so-called" houses of prayer to be unfit. That statement is one heck of a bridge for peace...
      His response to Carter's letter (in part) was

      "I assure you, what my family endured is not unique, for many other families suffered as much--if not more. All this took place due to religious hatred. As a Christian, I am ashamed of the position of many Christians that promoted religious hatred and intolerance--in direct defiance of the message brought to us by Lord Christ. I wonder what happened to "Love thy neighbor?" I am equally ashamed of the behavior of many Muslim and Jewish groups for the same reason. Religion is supposed to improve our lives and provide the spiritual enrichment to make this world a better place to live."

      Possibly I don't understand your position. But Mounir's response seems consistent with the quote you selected. Although, the response may be moderated somewhat. Straighten me out, if I'm not getting your point.
      Last edited by Loup Solitaire; 05-25-2007, 02:20 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ronschaum View Post
        Possibly I don't understand your position. But Mounir's response seems consistent with the quote you selected. Although, the response may be moderated somewhat. Straighten me out, if I'm not getting your point.
        Like I said, his statement is one heck of a bridge for peace in the Middle East, because his statement might well unite the Christians, the Muslims, and the Jews... against the Daheshists...Hence, for the first time in the history of the Middle East, all three religions—whose houses of worship have ALL been declared unfit by Mounir Murad, in his "Summary of the Basic Daheshist Principles"—NOW have a common ennemy: Daheshism.

        See the irony?

        Now we understand better what the "Letter that Shook the Daheshist World " meant when we read that the actions of one Daheshist speaking publicly on behalf on Dahehism affects all...

        Imagine being in Beirut, and you run into a guy from a militant group... who happened to read that book... what do you think will happen to you?

        The counter argument is then: "Be brave and tell the truth."

        AHA! But IS IT the TRUTH?

        What Amira Zahid (I now dare mention her name to you because you brought it up somewhere else on Daheshville) read to her brother and myself negates that statement. Also... Doctor Dahesh had friends from the clergy... Didn't HE?

        So, what IS that statement based upon?

        I have no problem with Mounir Murad or anyone saying "This or that Church etc." is a bad place because such and such an act was committed (and cite EVIDENCE). But to say that ALL are unfit... Come on... Even I, a former Catholic KNOW decent priests and I would never DARE suggest that ALL Churches, Mosques, Synagogues... are misrepresenting the teachings of their respective religions. And I would certainly NOT underline it as a DAHESHIST PRINCIPLE.

        Last edited by Mario; 05-25-2007, 02:42 PM.
        "Fail, to succeed."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mario View Post
          Like I said, his statement is one heck of a bridge for peace in the Middle East, because his statement might well unite the Christians, the Muslims, and the Jews... against the Daheshists...Hence, for the first time in the history of the Middle East, all three religions—whose houses of worship have ALL been declared unfit by Mounir Murad, in his "Summary of the Basic Daheshist Principles"—NOW have a common enemy: Daheshism.

          See the irony?

          Now we understand better what the "Letter that Shook the Daheshist World " meant when we read that the actions of one Daheshist speaking publicly on behalf on Daheshism affects all...

          Imagine being in Beirut, and you run into a guy from a militant group... who happened to read that book... what do you think will happen to you?

          The counter argument is then: "Be brave and tell the truth."

          AHA! But IS IT the TRUTH?

          What Amira Zahid (I now dare mention her name to you because you brought it up somewhere else on Daheshville) read to her brother and myself negates that statement. Also... Doctor Dahesh had friends from the clergy... Didn't HE?

          So, what IS that statement based upon?

          I have no problem with Mounir Murad or anyone saying "This or that Church etc." is a bad place because such and such an act was committed (and cite EVIDENCE). But to say that ALL are unfit... Come on... Even I, a former Catholic KNOW decent priests and I would never DARE suggest that ALL Churches, Mosques, Synagogues... are misrepresenting the teachings of their respective religions. And I would certainly NOT underline it as a DAHESHIST PRINCIPLE.

          Well Daheshism is new to me and I take no offense to Mounir's comment. I was raised as a Christian, but I have always had a problem with numerous things that western countries have done "in the name of God". I find myself all too aware of the plight of the American Indian.

          Yes I have known priests that are good people. In fact I have known homosexual priests that were good people. I also know Jewish people that I respect for their religious principles. But when we create a religious state and laws are established that provide special privileges for religious groups and exclude others, it creates inequities.

          As far as people being offended by Mounir's statement, I don't think the Jewish people or the Christians are that thin skinned.

          Daheshist are people and people can get frustrated. It is frustration I think that is fueling Mounir. I am sure that especially the people of Lebanon, the people who have felt forced to leave Lebanon, feel like they are caught in a vise of cultural forces that are unfair. And the situation is so complex, it is highly unlikely to be resolved.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ronschaum View Post
            Well Daheshism is new to me and I take no offense to Mounir's comment. I was raised as a Christian, but I have always had a problem with numerous things that western countries have done "in the name of God". I find myself all too aware of the plight of the American Indian.

            Yes I have known priests that are good people. In fact I have known homosexual priests that were good people. I also know Jewish people that I respect for their religious principles. But when we create a religious state and laws are established that provide special privileges for religious groups and exclude others, it creates inequities.

            As far as people being offended by Mounir's statement, I don't think the Jewish people or the Christians are that thin skinned.

            Daheshist are people and people can get frustrated. It is frustration I think that is fueling Mounir. I am sure that especially the people of Lebanon, the people who have felt forced to leave Lebanon, feel like they are caught in a vise of cultural forces that are unfair. And the situation is so complex, it is highly unlikely to be resolved.
            I am glad you are not offended, and we would have to conduct a fair survey to determine if these views are offending a particular group etc.

            That aside, the issue is still this: are the views discussed here and which were expressed by Mounir Murad in his self-published book "Daheshism and the Journey of Life" in line with the views of Doctor Dahesh?

            Why that is relevant is simple:

            Mounir Murad, by virtue of the fact he published and circulated a book that contains that message, has given the world (the Daheshist World especially) the right to cross examine his statements—regardless of whether or not it offends (or not) anyone.

            It may well be in line with what everyone, everywhere, is feeling.

            OK then, let's go with that scenario: why would I want anyone who dares not reform THEIR Church, Mosque, or Synagogue to join MY faith?

            What happens when ALL Daheshist Temples ... not true to Daheshism?... Hey... It COULD happen... These same people (and/or their spiritual fluids), instead of doing what it takes to REFORM their Daheshist Religion, will foresake it and migrate to another, then another... then another...

            Personally, I want people to enter Daheshism NOT because some piece of literature used their own frustration with their Religion as a springboard... while REALLY hurting the feelings of others who ARE happy with their Religion and its associated place of worship.

            We don't know if the words of Mounir Murad are saying "Stay and REFORM your Religion" versus... "Leave your Religion and join US."
            "Fail, to succeed."

            Comment


            • #7
              I yield!

              Comment


              • #8
                Me too!

                I hope I am not giving you the impression I am after Mounir Murad (or anyone else in particular). After all, he went to great lengths and expense to publish and freely distribute his book.

                One might even argue that he did SOMETHING while "others" sat idly by.

                But we still have to have a healthy process of checks and balances and never, ever, have a situation where (heaven forbid) one Daheshist says to another "How dare you challenge me!? I represent Daheshism!" (I am not saying that THIS happened in THIS case...But, after everything I've been through, and excuse MY French... I ain't takin' no chances... Y'all!)
                "Fail, to succeed."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mario View Post
                  We don't know if the words of Mounir Murad are saying "Stay and REFORM your Religion" versus... "Leave your Religion and join US."
                  If Mounir Murad's intention is to appeal to those educated, sensible, and open minded enough to enter Daheshism for the right reasons, why would he need to remind them (and the whole world) that Churches, Mosques, and Synagogues... are not true to the Religion they claim to represent? Assuming, of course that this statement is factual.

                  There are many "right reasons" to become a Daheshist.

                  There are many "wrong reasons" as well.

                  People shouldn't leave any religion based simply on frustration, because that may be indicative of impatience.

                  Instead, they should feel the urge to do so, for reasons they may never be able to explain. And preferably do so without feeling hurt or resentment towards the religion they used to belong to. They should be at peace.

                  But unfortunately, many do leave because they are fed up and that is why cults are in business.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ronschaum View Post
                    I stumbled across the following letter to the Washington Post from former US President Jimmy Carter. I am uncertain whether he was trying to promote one of his books or whether he was truely trying to make a point. But I noticed that he got a response from a person I thought might be of interest to Daheshest. The link is:

                    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...d_mideast.html

                    The responding person was Mounir Murad. There also were some responses from others who I believe had true interests in peace in Lebabnon.

                    Please try to disregard some of the idiotic replys from some of my less intelligent countrymen.
                    Not everyone is born with a fair sense of compassion.
                    LOL. Ain't that God's honest truth?

                    Anyway, funny that you should mention those particular comments. I'm the one that suggested that Jimmy Carter run for president again....as a Christian Democrat. Alas...we really don't have a Christian Democratic party in USAmerica. it would be nice, IMnotsoHO.
                    ________________________________________________
                    "Call me late, just don't call me late for dinner."-Checker Flag Bubba

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mario View Post
                      I wonder why—then—he wrote in his book "Daheshism and the Journey of Life" the following (under the "Summary of the Basic Daheshist Principles.")

                      "Churches, mosques, synagogues, and other so-called 'houses of prayer' are not true to the religions they claim to represent, and many of them are run by deceitful and evil people."

                      Thus, basically, declaring that all, "so-called" houses of prayer to be unfit. That statement is one heck of a bridge for peace...
                      I think we can give Mounir the benefit of the doubt here. I had read that statement earlier, and didn't take it to mean ALL Muslim, Christian and Jewish communities at all.

                      And there certainly are many religious communities within the three historic Abrahamic faiths that are 'run by deceitful and evil people.' The Lord Himself chastized Israel once upon a time for having 'abominable creeds' and 'having a form of godliness but not the power thereof.' Muhammad had strong things to say about the future of Islamic unity that ought to make all Muslims seriously reflect on the state of their faith today. Jesus did not treat Pharisees and Sadducees with kid gloves and he wasn't shy about voicing his opinion of their corruption.

                      Positive statements can also lead people to imagine vain things. It is simply impossible to say anything that will not be filtered through other peoples' lenses in wild and wonderful ways. Studied and diplomatic phrasing do serve a purpose and can prevent misunderstandings, this is true. But the normal subjective human tendency is to see and hear whatever one expects or wants to see and hear.
                      ________________________________________________
                      "Call me late, just don't call me late for dinner."-Checker Flag Bubba

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Zionic:

                        You are having the same problem of understanding that I had earlier. But through the powers of positive persausion, Mario tactfully explained it to me. Mounir is a Daheshist and speaks as one. Just as a Dahestist does not proseltylize, a Daheshist does not critcize the religions of others. To say he is ashamed of other religions is to pass judgement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by zionic View Post
                          I think we can give Mounir the benefit of the doubt here. I had read that statement earlier, and didn't take it to mean ALL Muslim, Christian and Jewish communities at all.
                          Hmmm...

                          Being that I have a bias for style & content (form & function) working together, let me then ask you to render an honest opinion based solely on the following page I just scanned from the book. It lays out, in bulleted form, the (partial) list Daheshist principles (according to Mounir Murad)

                          Last edited by Daheshville; 05-26-2007, 08:24 AM.
                          "Fail, to succeed."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ronschaum View Post
                            Zionic:
                            You are having the same problem of understanding that I had earlier. But through the powers of positive persausion, Mario tactfully explained it to me. Mounir is a Daheshist and speaks as one. Just as a Dahestist does not proseltylize, a Daheshist does not critcize the religions of others. To say he is ashamed of other religions is to pass judgement.
                            Ron, I can't tell you how worried I was that I might have offended you. Thank you!
                            Last edited by Mario; 05-25-2007, 10:18 PM.
                            "Fail, to succeed."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by zionic View Post
                              Jesus did not treat Pharisees and Sadducees with kid gloves and he wasn't shy about voicing his opinion of their corruption.
                              Jesus was a prophet. Mounir Murad is not a prophet.

                              We—the Daheshists—are to abide by what our prophet has said and written.

                              UNLESS, there is evidence of misconduct that Murad had gathered. In that case, by all means, he should go public with it and we will back him 100%.

                              Remember Darrick's accusations about the Leader of the Mormon Church? I asked him the same question: what evidence do you have?

                              Personally, I am officially at the point I am only going to trust what I have heard, seen, read, and inferred on my own.

                              Mounir Murad, Ghazi Brax, etc. and even "O'Tool" are all invited to come and set camp in Daheshville and ... talk.

                              Incidentally, I had a very nice conversation with Brother Youssef Salameh, and he gave me a long list of Dahehists in Lebanon who send Daheshville their best regards, and he ASSURED me that "O' Tool's" words from October 2006 were not representative of the opinion of the Daheshists who regularly meet at the Mission House in Beirut!

                              THAT was AMAZING NEWS!
                              Last edited by Mario; 05-25-2007, 10:12 PM.
                              "Fail, to succeed."

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