Worlds Without End

[WingedPaladin]

Another parallel. This hymn resonates with Latter-Day Saint beliefs of eternal progression, divine genealogy, worlds and creations, the speed at which spirit can travel, and the everlasting hope and goodness of God as was taught by Joseph Smith, Jr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwYm_mKQ3Gs

If You Could Hie to Kolob, 284 - William W. Phelps

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.

See Abraham 3 from The Pearl of Great Price

[WingedPaladin]

Astronomers find system with five planets

Here are a few astronomical articles about recent findings:

Astronomers find system with five planets

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN0645750520071106

Small planets forming in the Pleiades: astronomers

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1423003320071114

[zionic]

One of my wife's favourite hymns....and she's a Baptist!

[WingedPaladin]

The Pearl of Great Price - "The Facsimilies"

I was listening to this podcast tonight from http://www.byub.org , and though I had grown up knowing about the Facsimiles in our scriptural compilation called "The Pearl of Great Price", the LDS scholars discussing the Facsimiles make some comments concerning some related historical documents and connections to other cultures that made my jaw drop. Some things they say, I thought, might be of some interest to Daheshists: http://byub.org/pogp/episode.asp?id=2

Here are the Facsimiles they are discussing:


Facsimile No. 1


Facsimile No. 2


Facsimile No. 3

The links below the images take you to the page with comments about the image by Joseph Smith, Jr. The main speaker in the podcast is Professor Robert Millet, a man whom I greatly admire. He was my professor for three consecutive religion classes. I enjoyed listening to him speak so much due to the deep insights he would bring to the scriptures and for his main goal of being an instrument in helping his students gain a greater relationship with Jesus Christ.

[WingedPaladin]

From Facsimile No. 2

"Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh."

The speakers mention that the word "Kolob" may have Semitic origin stemming from qlb or qrb depending on the language. In looking this up, I found the following Arabic words:

قرابة
qurāba - 1. relationship 2. related

قريب
qarīb - 1. near, close 2. handy 3. relation; relative 4. around


Joseph Smith, Jr. did not natively speak Arabic, Hebrew, nor Egyptian. In fact, he was an American farm boy with only 3 years of formal schooling due to family circumstances. The information for his translations came from the revelations he received, the gift of tongues and interpretation of tongues.

[Mario]

Dear Winged Paladin:

I want to thank you for the extremely kind words you posted about me in another post.

Please know the respect is mutual. I do also enjoy your presence in Daheshville. You bring much needed positive energy.

That is why, I have a favor to ask of you:

Since Daheshville is here to server Daheshism and it has limited bandwidth, can you perhaps resist posting these standalone messages that (as far as I can see) deal with only the LDS Church?

I think you've done your Church a great service, for you are a great Ambassador and Daheshists can only be inspired by your devotion to your Church.

But we do have limited space and bandwidth and we need to keep things focused on Doctor Dahesh and Daheshism. I hope you agree that we've been gracious and welcoming of your LDS beliefs and ideas.

Now, however, I will ask that we tone it down a tad.

If it makes you feel any better, I asked Youssef the same thing — and he was posting nothing but Daheshist propaganda. Not to infer that you are here to recruit... But, you do need to place yourself in our shoes. We're trying to rescue Daheshism—for everyone's sake.

Thank you for your kind understanding.

Mario

p.s. If you have a web site that has ALL the information you wish to share with us, then please post the link here. THANKS!

[WingedPaladin]

Since Daheshville is here to server Daheshism and it has limited bandwidth, can you perhaps resist posting these standalone messages that (as far as I can see) deal with only the LDS Church?

Did you read the part about parallels? I only post things here about the LDS Church that I find have parallels with the teachings of Dr. Dahesh. This I feel strengthens truth and faith for Latter-Day Saints and Daheshists alike. If the messages I post do affect the space and bandwidth, please delete them.

[Mario]

OK, first of all, I can't just Delete a message because I feel it is eating up bandwidth. That would be rude and insensitive. Although, I will admit, there was that instance when I deleted Zionic's link to a Muppet Show segment...

Here is what I suggest: include all the hyperlinks you can fit in the post. For example, hotwire the word "parallels" so that the reader can click and see what you are referring to. That way, I (a very busy person, like yourself) can go "Aaah, I seeee"

Plus, I would rather you are redundant in these cases. Remember, on the web, people forget — especially that their attention span is... huh? Sorry, what was I talking about?

[WingedPaladin]

Worlds and Eternal Lives

(See first line in this thread "Another parallel.")

I had assumed that Daheshists would readily see the parallels and the reasons behind why I am posting LDS beliefs in a Daheshist forum. It looks like I need to be more explicit.

This thread, Worlds Without End, is to demonstrate the commonality between faiths of the belief of life on other planets and of God and Christ being the supreme Creator and Governor over the planets, stars, and all life and matter in this universe. This is why I have mentioned the hymn "If You Could Hie to Kolob" and The Pearl of Great Price. I am able to say more about the LDS faith than any other faith due to my background. I hoped that Daheshists would also comment adding quotes from Dr. Dahesh concerning this truth and that possibly others of other faiths would include their connections as well.

Latter-Day Saints are not the only faith that share this belief. Those of the Baha'i religion seem to also believe that millions or billions of planets beyond our Earth are populated and are among God's creations and that after this life, we might actually live on these other planets. I've heard of other faiths having this belief as well. Apparently, anciently, Egyptians believed in the multitude of stars and planets and the eternal nature of the soul.

The idea of life on other planets is comparatively rather novel among mainstream Christianity. Galileo Galilei was excommunicated and under house arrest for posing the idea that the Earth wasn't in the center of the universe (which was the prevalent belief of his day) and that the "solar system" is heliocentric after he had seen moons around Jupiter through his telescope. Once the scientific idea of the Earth moving around the Sun rather than the Sun moving around the Earth was established and the Western paradigm of the Universe shifted due to scientific advances and a change in perspective, Galileo was pardoned much after his death.

"13 Yea, and if he say unto the earth—Move—it is moved.
14 Yea, if he say unto the earth—Thou shalt go back, that it lengthen out the day for many hours—it is done;
15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun."
(The Book of Mormon, Helaman 12:13-15)

To a physicist, the Sun and Earth actually orbit around each other, but because the Sun is so massive compared to the Earth and other planets, the central point is within the sun and the movement of the Sun is rather negligible. Celestial bodies orbiting around each other is more apparent when you have two stars, planets, or asteroids of about the same mass orbiting around a central point between them - much like if you had two kids on skates holding onto a rope swinging around.

------------------------

One major doctrine of Daheshism the LDS church diverts from is the doctrine of reincarnation on this or other planets. Many of the leaders of the church have taught reincarnation and the transmigration of souls from father to son to be a false doctrine and "doctrine of the devil" due to Joseph Smith, Jr. encountering a fellow who had come to his home declaring himself to be the reincarnation of Mathias:

"Curiosity to see a man that was reputed to be a Jew, caused many to call during the day and more particularly at evening Suspicions were entertained that said Joshua was the noted [Robert] Mathias of New York, spoken so much of in the public prints on account of the trials he underwent in that place before a court of justice, for murder manslaughter comtempt of court whiping his Daughter &c for the two last crimes he was imprisoned, and came out about 4 months page 28 since, after some, equivocating he confessed that he was realy Mathias: after supper I proposed that he should deliver a lecture to us, he did so sitting in his chair; he commenced by saying God said let there be light and there was light, which he dwelt upon through his discource, he made some verry exelent remarks but his mind was evidently filled with darkness, after he dismissed his meeting, and the congregation disperced, he conversed freely upon the circumstances that transpired in New York. His name is Robert Mathias, he say[s] that Joshua, is his priestly name.

During all this time I did not contradict his sentiments, wishing to draw out all that I could concerning his faith; the next morning

(10 November 1835 • Tuesday)

I resumed the conversation and desired him to enlighten my mind more on his views respecting the resurection, he says that he posses[ses] the spirit of his fathers, that he is a litteral decendant of Mathias the Apostle that was chosen in the place of Judas that fell and that his spirit is resurected in him, and that this is the way or schem[e] of eternal life, this transmigration of soul or spirit from Father to Son: I told him that his doctrine was of the Devil that he was in reality in possession of [a] wicked and depraved spirit, although he professed to be the spirit of truth, itself, & he said also that he possesses the soul of Christ; he tarried until Wednesday 11th, after breckfast I told him, that my God told me that his God is the Devil, and I could not keep him any longer, and he must depart, and so I for once cast out the Devil in bodily shape, & I believe a murderer" (From http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Diary_...Jr._(1835-1836) )

There are many sites on the internet that discuss how reincarnation is subtlety taught in the LDS faith. Some say it is one of those doctrines that Joseph Smith, Jr. was forbidden to teach due to the inability of the saints to receive it. Some say reincarnation is what is being meant by "Eternal Lives" which is a phrase in some of the ordinances. Others believe that "Eternal Lives" refers to eternal progeny. Brigham Young taught that after we are exalted, we have the option to come down to a world, like Adam did, and become mortal again through transgressing the laws of immortality in order to provide physical bodies for our spirit children. Currently, LDS leaders teach about eternal progression and that perfection is an eternal goal which spans much beyond our life here and now.

The general idea held among members is that our single mortal life ends here and the rest of our learning continues in the spirit world and after the resurrection - being that we resurrect with a perfected incorruptible body that cannot die again. Joseph Smith had met the angelic Peter, James, and both John the Baptist and John the Beloved who actually touched his and Oliver Cowdery's heads to bestow the Priesthood, thus having perfected and glorified bodies. Joseph Smith later encountered John the Beloved on the roadside and other occasions appearing as normal as any man.

Could this be much like Dr. Dahesh's six personalities who were said to be tangible beings from a higher world?

Here one stance of the Baha'i on reincarnation, but I can't say from reading this I clearly understand what it is:

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/BWF/bwf-103.html

I have found some references say that Baha'is do believe in reincarnation on other planets and others say they don't.

I personally have learned of past lives I have had on this world and on other worlds, but I don't remember any of it, so I can't say definitely one way or another. Apparently there is much evidence in studies of hypnosis to support the idea. I don't recommend anyone to seek finding out about their past lives. (Curiosity can kill the cat.) Apparently, there is a reason why God causes us to forget them.

I have read in Daheshism - Journey of Life (PDF file) that we actually live concurrent lives in upper and lower worlds. I am very open to this idea due to personal experiences I have had of which this idea could explain.

[Mario]

Perfect, thank you for going the extra mile. Now, we (meaning, anyone coming at this from a Daheshist perspective) has the context to review and can engage in a meaningful conversation about this. I look forward to reviewing your post and contributing my two cents (after some much needed sleep!)

[WingedPaladin]

The previous posts concerning the podcast and Kolob connection with Arabic for me was an "Aha!" moment. I had assumed "Kolob" to be some heavenly word Joseph heard. Having it be of Semitic origin makes sense to me since this is a story about Father Abraham. I get too excited about stuff like this, and so I am excited to share it. I don't know much yet about Arabic astronomy, but I'm wondering if there is a connection there as well. I really like to see how everything relates and connects as it is for me a mind expanding experience.

[Mario]

I'll go one more step and recommend Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth Series" Here is one sample on YouTube (on of many, I am sorry if it doesn't specifically address the issue of Reincarnation. But I love the series as a whole and I recommend it highly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FH-u6DokWU

There is list of Campbell movies at the end of this thread

http://www.daheshville.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259

Regarding Reincarnation:

Might I suggest the following, a summary of the Introduction by Doctor Dahesh.

http://www.daheshville.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201

[Mario]

The previous posts concerning the podcast and Kolob connection with Arabic for me was an "Aha!" moment.

To my ears, "Kolob" somewhat sounds like "Heart" in Arabic.

[Mario]

I have read in Daheshism - Journey of Life (PDF file) that we actually live concurrent lives in upper and lower worlds. I am very open to this idea due to personal experiences I have had of which this idea could explain.

Ah, this book is my favorite topic of discussion.

Well, the subject of concurrent lives is nothing new... "Parallel Universes" etc.

But did you did you see his "Summary of Basic Daheshist Principles"? Check out item #5... What do you think?

[WingedPaladin]

True Religion

But did you did you see his "Summary of Basic Daheshist Principles"? Check out item #5... What do you think?

#5

"Churches, mosques, synagogues, and other so-called houses of prayer are not true to the religions they claim to represent and many of them are run by deceitful and evil people."

It is not my place to judge and condemn religions nor their leaders, now is it? I do not have the omniscience to do so justly. I see one word in here I'd like to point out: "many". It does not say "all".

From my experiences, I understand my religion to be run by imperfect people. Some have made serious errors. I understand it to also be run by very genuine and honest people with integrity. I have before mentioned in another thread being in the same room on several occasions with President Gordon B. Hinkley, and have spoken to and shaken the hands of the Apostles. I have felt the Spirit of God beaming from them.

Would the Spirit of God beam from an "evil and deceitful" person?
I think not.

What is true religion? From what I have learned in life, it is loving and serving God and one's fellow beings and being true to the goodness and light within - love and integrity. If a house of prayer is used to worship God with real intent and also used as a place of service for physical, spiritual, and educational needs as appropriate, then would it be true to the religion it claims to represent?

Might this serve as an example?: Tonight (Tuesday), I went to the church and taught an Astronomy Merit Badge workshop to members of the Boy Scouts. My husband joined with a group that went to help a family move from one house to another. Mothers and adult women were teaching teenage girls homemaking skills. Several ladies prepared and brought food (dinner and desserts) for all who were there. No one had any expectation of being compensated for their services - all was done in a spirit of love and duty to God and one another.