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Versions of the Daheshist Symbol

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  • Versions of the Daheshist Symbol

    I have noticed here in the forums and in pdf files on sites about Dr. Dahesh about 3 different versions of the Daheshist Symbol or "RAMZ": One with the names of the prophets in the rays of the star (From, one with "Personality" and corresponding numbers, and one with only symbols in the rays:

    I do not speak or read Arabic (yet), so I'm trying to understand the symbols. The videos have been a great help. However, what is the meaning and background history behind the differing versions?

    (I wonder if there is a way the videos can be stickied so they stay up at the top of this forum. They are way cool.)

  • #2
    Hi Winged Paladin,

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    Firstly, I'd like to show you these from the Daheshville archives created some while ago. They show the process we underwent before deciding on taping "live." (third version) (how to draw the star) (Sandrine's instructions to "Lina")

    Technically speaking, there are 3 versions of the Daheshist Symbol and two categories. Today, and because Doctor Dahesh is no longer with us physically, there only remains one category.

    Those who can read Arabic and who have seen some printed versions of the Daheshist Symbol, might have noticed that some versions featured the following request under the star: "That a spiritual session be permitted for me..." The other, the more familiar: "That a spiritual aid be permitted for me..."

    Before we get into the Star itself, let's just cover this issue first:

    Back when the Doctor was alive, any person hoping to attend a spiritual session could petition for one.

    A spiritual session was, according to what I have heard from a first-hand witness — in addition to the information that would circulate in the Daheshist community— an experience involving miracles and revelations of truly epic proportions. The only drawback was that the Doctor would be exhausted at the end.

    At the time, one would have had to make a special Symbol, once a day, for a full month. That Symbol was the one where the request for a spiritual session would be written. In layman's terms, one had to apply and be placed on the waiting list.

    In my case, and some time ago, I've written about my personal quest for this amazing gift pursuant to someone telling me something to the effect of :" You've NEVER done a spiritual session Symbol? How come? The DOCTOR IS HERE, you're SO lucky to have him here... ?" (I'll fast-forward the tape) I happened to be in Connecticut at the time. So I went upstairs and
    I went up to him and said "Doctor... I was wondering if I may ask about the spiritual session..."

    He shook his head, smiled, flipped gently his hand and said something in Arabic which I took as " You don't need it..."

    And, in fact, hadn't been for "what's her name" practically making me feel as if I missed out on the biggest opportunity of my life — basically "guilt"— I would never have asked him.

    Anyway, I did and the meaning in his answer to me was clear.

    However... I would never have dared tell anyone else not to attempt and petition for one...

    Anyway, the era of the "Spiritual Session" is over...

    That means that we were left with only one class or category of the Daheshist Symbol. And before I proceed, I'd like to mention that even I succumbed to the temptation of continually referring to the Daheshist Symbol as "Ramz" when conversing in English.

    (I know... some may be rolling their eyes and going "Oh, not again!")

    But then I remembered how the Doctor was a purist when it came to languages and I asked myself the following question:

    "Why refer to the Daheshist Symbol as 'Ramz' when 'Ramz' means 'Symbol' and it should really be 'Al Ramz Al Daa Hee Shee'?"

    And when I began to hear myself say "Sayyals" instead of "Sayyalaat" I realized that we were taking a dangerous route.

    And I am willing to bet that some who have heard the movies (incidentally, thank you Winged Paladin for your extremely kind words) probably went "Oh, so THAT'S the way you pronounce it!"

    So, I wish to thank you and everyone who is using proper English words when referring to our sacred rituals and concepts.

    Again, I wish to remind anyone who might disagree : Why didn't the Doctor instruct everyone that the proper way to refer to a Daheshist in English should be "Daaheeshee?" (I've written about that particular story). In fact, why don't we have "The Daaheeshiyat Publishing House?"
    Instead, it is "The Daheshist Publishing House."

    Plus, take any translation of conferences, they all use proper English translations of the Daheshists rituals.

    Anyone saying "Sayyals" when they mean to say "Sayyalaat" is basically altering the grammatical nature of the original Arabic term.

    That's one...

    Two, In polite society, we speak or write in only one language at a time.

    Thirdly: would using grammatically incorrect Arabic words make Daheshism more appealing to "The Masses?" (Sorry, I borrowed that last phrase from another site. I saw in fact that reference used there and it made me chuckle... "The Masses..." No individuals here... just "The Masses.")

    Anyway... Back on track: The first version of the Daheshist Symbol (which some still use) featured letters (we could make a movie in fact...a mini documentary of sorts if anyone is interested)

    These letters, together, spell the Arabic verb "JaThaBooHa"

    In Arabic, that means, "They Attracted Her".

    My brother Chucri taught me the three versions of the Symbol. I don't remember why exactly I stopped making the one where we place the names of the prophets. And I've already told the story of when I went to ask the Doctor about whether or not I was writing the Symbol correctly and what happened... To recap, he didn't even give me an opportunity to ask him and he said "Keep doing it as you have been."

    However, what applies to me alone does not necessarily apply to others.

    That is why we've given (OK, I can't resist... I have to use it) "The Masses" the information.

    Incidentally, and to best of my knowledge, no official publication (such the Daheshist conferences) featured the third version of the Daheshist Symbol — even when Doctor Dahesh was with us. It was either the first or second one. Again, I may be mistaken, if I am, I would appreciate any information anyone might have. In any case, once we finish the movies for the Symbol currently in production, we will create a series showing how to write the third version.

    Lastly, and AFTER he had instructed me to "Keep doing it as I have been" I happened to be at the Doctor's House and I forgot to sign my Symbol.

    He made it reappear so that I sign it... and burn it again. Well, neither Brother Ali nor the Doctor remarked that the version of the Symbol I was making was wrong.

    I believe the Symbol is a Beacon designed to send an encoded signal "to the other side." By itself, it is perhaps helpless and is lost in the noise without the invisible and perhaps protective shield made from our intentions and thoughts as it crosses this dimension into the other.

    I hope this helps!

    Best Regards,

    Last edited by Mario; 10-19-2007, 01:02 PM. Reason: Clarification. Shown in Green.
    "Fail, to succeed."


    • #3
      Jesus Christ, SuperStar — INDEED!

      I thought I should add (or revisit) this bit of information about the Star. I am sure I've already written about this on the Forum, so my apologies for the redundancy.

      In the New Testament we learn that Jesus Christ, in the process of dissuading the mob from stoning the woman to death, knelt and wrote something in the sand.

      In the New York City apartment, Doctor Dahesh —in front of me —said that had Jesus not scared the mob with actual visions of what each one of them did, they would have stoned him instead! In other words, he didn't just appeal to their sense of humanity simply by speaking words of wisdom.

      He knelt and with his finger (according to the Doctor) DREW A STAR in the sand or the dirt and activated... the... "Divine Broadcasting System". As a result, each person who wanted to stone the woman saw a vision appear before them (just as if they were watching a VIDEO tape of them in caught in the act) and as a result, dropped the stone and fled!

      Thus, the use of the STAR by the prophets goes back (at least) to Jesus' time.
      Last edited by Mario; 10-18-2007, 05:39 AM.
      "Fail, to succeed."


      • #4
        Dear mario , can i ask you how manny years the doctor stayed with you in your appartement , and did vereyone used to gather with the doctor in your appartement even those who are trustee's to the museum right now

        i will understand if you don't want to answer, these are a little personnal questions


        • #5
          Hi Boxfox,

          Of course you can ask. And I'll begin by saying that in fact that apartment wasn't really mine. However, the Doctor, in his writings, and to my surprise, always referred to it as "Mario's Apartment." That is why, in fact, and if you notice, I always placed the "quotation marks" or referred to it as the NYC apartment.

          The Doctor lived in the apartment several times per year. He would sometimes stay for a couple of days, and at other times a week or so. Sometimes HE and I were alone, and at other times, the owner of the apartment and/or his brother (both didn't stay much in the USA) would be there. I was there full time from 1980 until 1985. There was one particular time when the Doctor and I stayed a full 3 weeks alone. That's the longest HE and I stayed together (alone that is).

          Now, I don't mean to infer that no one came to visit when I say "alone."

          On the contrary. The "Trustees" (One, two, or three at a time) were there practically every day (well, depending on their schedule). And, there were visits from other Daheshists, and even from "Former" Daheshists.

          The phone number of the apartment was perhaps dreaded by many because that meant they had to speak to "Mario."

          And I wasn't too forthcoming with information. That is why, according to what I heard often, everyone would complain to the Doctor and say "Do we have to call Mario if we need to get in touch with you?" and that's when he would say "He is crazy, but is he loyal."

          And now, I have a question for anyone who cried and moaned to the Doctor about me: Why would the Doctor rely upon me to act as a "communications officer" in the USA—up until the end? Wasn't there anyone else, for Pete's sake, that he could have relied upon? YET, he made all of you deal with ... me. And it makes you feel any better, it was no picnic for me either knowing that all you wanted was information, that you couldn't care less about me, that I could have been dead on the street and you wouldn't even lift a finger to come to my aid, or to the aid of those who you maligned — the trustees.

          Unfortunately, the Trustees themselves became "weird" and you, out of guilt, became so loyal to them, they could not no wrong...

          WHOM do I sell the movie rights to people!!!!

          Anyway, Boxfox, I hope I answered your question.

          Take care,

          Last edited by Daheshville; 10-19-2007, 08:53 AM. Reason: Typos.
          "Fail, to succeed."


          • #6
            Mario taught me how to make the prayer sometime back in 1985. Back then he explained to me that there were conceivably other ways of making the prayer but when he went to the Dr. to ask if he was doing it properly (after someone questioned Mario that he ((Mario)) may not be doing it 'properly'...the Dr. responded to Mario, before he could even ask... "just do it the way you have been doing it...") This for me has always been, and always will be... enough for me. Mario taught me the way that he has been doing the prayer, and this is what he is conveying to us in his wonderfully helpful and informative videos.

            Like you, Winged, as a non-Arabic speaking person, I can only 'perfect' my Arabic by copying, or 'mimicing' what I see as the proper writing in Arabic. In time, the writing of the Arabic for the prayer becomes quite natural...and really second nature. In the end, it is the INTENT of the writing that ultimately matters... it is the WHY of why we are praying that truly, truly matters. I will come back to this point in a moment.

            During a small get together at 'Mario's Apartment' in NYC on June 1, 1986...I was with 9 or 10 other Daheshists gathered in remembrance Dr. Dahesh's birthday. No one really knew me all that well (kind of like how things are today!) and as such I was sort of the "odd man out" as I had really only known some of these people by name only. I was the only non-Arabic speaking person in the group, and as I recall, not much accomodation was made. When it came time to make a prayer, it became clear to me that it was going to be a group prayer... (no one really took the time to explain this to me at the time, things just sort of happened...) Dr. Brax wrote the prayer and then it was passed around and everyone signed their name to it. When the prayer came to me, I asked (in English, of course) where I should sign my name... There was kind of a heavy silence in the room... one of the 'brothers' just pointed and I proceeded to sign my name in Arabic. I then passed the prayer to the person next to me and the ritual continued.

            Afterwords there was some discussion (not with me of course) of how could someone that did not speak Arabic really make the Daheshist prayer? There was a little perplexing philosophical discussion on exactly how the mechanics of such a thing could or would work. I was asked if I spoke Arabic or was I just copying the Arabic writing. I explained that no, I did not speak Arabic and that Mario had taught me how to make the prayer for myself... and yes, lo and behold... all in Arabic! I don't want to convey that there were *gasps* in the room... that may be a bit dramatic.... but I did sense there were judgements passed that MY praying in Arabic was not the same as THEIR praying in Arabic.

            What is the point of my conveying this little story? Well, for one, it happened... and two it ties in to my original point regarding INTENT. I don't remember who it was that I was talking to at this get together, but when I was questioned on what I felt was the VALIDITY of my prayer, it kind of came out of my mouth, that "I think my intent when I pray gets to where it needs to..." I was not meaning to be sarcastic in any in fact I was quite humbled at the time (I was young...) to be at such get together. But I think that sentiment still rings true.

            Our most honest intents, not even the one's that we tell ourselves...but the REAL inner voices of our truest selves, those are the ones that matter when we pray. I am sure I am not alone that often throughout the day, when driving, when walking...I say quiet prayers to myself. Do these "count"? Yes, I think they do... they may not carry what might be referred to as the "impact" that the actual writing of the prayer carries ('cosmic email' as Mario has poetically referred to them) ...but even our silent prayers still connect our hearts to the very INTENT of what is inside of us.
            Last edited by Johnson; 10-20-2007, 01:40 PM.


            • #7
              I appreciate all of what you all teach me and strive to help me to understand. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to learn and for your kind encouragement and support. Praying in Arabic is a great jump for me. However, I have learned to pray earnestly in Japanese and understand what I am saying, so I believe it is possible in Arabic as well. I very much enjoy hearing all of your stories and personal experiences. Thank you again and again.

              A question I have is how are each of the prophets names pronounced in Arabic? I still have to learn the Arabic alphabet! I appreciate Mario's attempts to teach written and spoken Arabic in the videos and I sometimes wish I had more time to myself to review those again and again so it can sink in better.
              Last edited by WingedPaladin; 10-20-2007, 07:04 AM.


              • #8
                Winged, thank YOU for all of your wonderful input here as well. We are all learning here together and you are every bit a part and contributor to that effort. You say that you learned to pray "earnestly" in Japanese...I think I can safely say that you can clearly understand the reasonable and natural leap to pray in Arabic. As an American, I always thought, "wow, how are other Americans ever going to embrace praying in Arabic???" But then I realized..."DUH!"... I am an American and I learned to do it and it is completely natural to do so.

                I am still me inside and my thoughts and intentions and ideas yes, are all in English...was it an intellectual leap to pray in Arabic?... yes, maybe a little at first... however, in time, it just becomes the way things are...and very natural. I really do not differentiate in my mind the prayer being in Arabic as anything different than the thoughts and intentions I hold in English... It really has become all one and the same.

                I never met Dr. first hearing of him was through my dear friend and college classmate at the time, Mario. I met Mario in class a year or so before Dr. Dahesh passed away. We really only knew each other in this particular class... it was only later that we came to find out we kind of thought of the other as "obnoxious"... for rather endearing reasons. It was after Dr. Dahesh's death, and after getting to know each other that Mario started talking to me about the Dr. and his life experiences with him. There were 'brothers' that told Mario he was an 'idealist' and that he was 'wasting' his time talking to me... Fortunately for me, Mario believed in me and we had hours and hours of meaningful discussions... as well as becoming close friends and true brothers.

                It was at Mario's apartment in NYC that he first showed me the process of performing the Daheshist prayer. The learning of the prayer for me came at a time when I was truly desirous to learn as much as I could about Daheshism. As such, it really did not really seem that 'foreign' (pun intended) to me to perform the prayer in Arabic. In my excitement (and upon reflection, naivete...) I shared with my family some of my "new" ideas. I, as many have felt, wanted to share this wonderful thing I found with everyone I knew... well, the reality is that everyone comes along their own road when they are ready... this was a real eye opener to me. Suffice it to say, my family was rather wary of my 'new' ideas and basically wanted me to stop talking about my ideas with them. Well, that was 20 some years ago, and the topic has never come up again between us, and they are happily living their lives, as I am living mine.

                For each of us... we have our own road to travel. We each have our inner voice that speaks to us and directs us along our way of where we are meant to travel. Mario has referred to this as our individual 'rites of passage'. I am thankful to have people here to share in these rites of passage that we all walk.
                Last edited by Johnson; 10-20-2007, 05:40 PM.